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Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

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Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#41

Post by racktash »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #35
namelosw wrote: post #24

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

There was a period in my life in my early 20s when I dabbled heavily in taoism. The book was a staple read for me and I tried to adjust my Outlook accordingly for a long time. Finally though, i dropped it and went back to who I was. Your comment makes me wonder if the specific translation of the book I read was a big factor.

I can relate to this comment. The Tao Te Ching had a profound influence on me. Reading it was the first time I engaged on a "spiritual" level with life (I'm a fairly pragmatic and reductionist guy, perhaps to a fault). But this also wore off for me and I returned to being my usual mostly unspiritual self after a couple of years boring my friends trying to tell my friends about the Tao... Without describing it.

I do feel like I have a respect for such things where before I just considered it all manipulative woo or self-delusion. I also think it paved the way to my being able to appreciate Wittgenstein's ideas (the ones I can grasp anyway).

I read through a few different translations of the TTC, two of which had commentaries. Both the text and the translations had somewhat different takes. So it's definitely worth trying a few versions.

Two I recommend: DC Lau's translation and Philip Ivanhoe's.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#43

Post by qwerty456127 »

namelosw wrote: post #24

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

Same thing with the Bible - to me reading it as a single translation seems making little sense. Reading every verse in multiple versions in multiple languages, looking up multiple meanings of every word feels a whole different story. Luckily reading Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old English is much easier than reading Chinese. I still feel like learning Chinese to read Taoist texts though, because they are so cool, Alan Watts inspired me to the point I can't imagine giving up this idea.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#45

Post by quickthrower2 »

ilkke wrote: post #36

I find it extremely valuable that there are so many translations available to begin with. With this type of subject matter, where words are but crude pointers to insight, having different phrasing helps to reclaim the insights when words become too familiar.

If we need this to understand technological things (did you learn Docker from just one manual/article for example?) we certainly must need it for spiritual things.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#47

Post by Podgajski »

namelosw wrote: post #24

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

The ambiguity of the Dao is just the Dao being the Dao. You can not explain something which has no duality with direct words so to try to translate the meaning of “Dao” will always need puns and metaphors.

Writings at point to the Dow are meant to get you to stop thinking, not to think for. They’re supposed to get you to contemplate life.

But I agree, the language and cultural barriers to understanding Daoist writings as an English speaking American makes it more of a challenge.

Derek Lin has done a translation which might be helpful.

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/DerekLin.html

And there is also a literal translation

https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Ching-Translation-Introduction-Co...

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#48

Post by Podgajski »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #43
namelosw wrote: post #24

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

Same thing with the Bible - to me reading it as a single translation seems making little sense. Reading every verse in multiple versions in multiple languages, looking up multiple meanings of every word feels a whole different story. Luckily reading Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old English is much easier than reading Chinese. I still feel like learning Chinese to read Taoist texts though, because they are so coo…

Regarding the Bible, you should read Young’s literal translation. It blew me away how much liberties that king James version took in their interpretation.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#49

Post by Podgajski »

throwaway626 wrote: post #19
superb-owl wrote: post #4

I've said this here before, but Ursula Le Guin's rendition is one of the best

She had the humility to admit she knew little about ancient Chinese and the courage to go ahead and venture a translation anyway, striving to touch something deeper than language. Her success is extremely laudable for this reason.

She understood that translating. The Dao is not so much about knowing Chinese, but knowing the Dao.

The most important part of translating the Dao De Ching is to be as close as possible to understanding Daoism as one can.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#50

Post by Podgajski »

Jach wrote: post #17
vitiral wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/mitchell.html 4 The Tao is like a well: used but never used up. It is like the eternal void: filled with infinite possibilities. It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older than God. My favorite, although my favorite depends on the season 9 Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money a…

9 is my favorite, too.

9 strikes a dagger into the heart of capitalism.
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