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Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

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Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#31

I've said this here before, but Ursula Le Guin's rendition is one of the best

She had the humility to admit she knew little about ancient Chinese and the courage to go ahead and venture a translation anyway, striving to touch something deeper than language. Her success is extremely laudable for this reason.

It's great that you've found something you like, but if you are interested in staying close to the text, a translation by a person that deeply understands Classical Chinese literature and philosophy is worth a read.

Please try Red Pine- https://www.amazon.com/dp/1556592906

To see the difference, let's compare her translation of 4 and 9 (Here, we have Stephen Mitchell and Red Pine's translations) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38058843#38095107

4: Sourceless

  The way is empty,
  used, but not used up.
  Deep, yes! ancestral
  to the ten thousand things.

  Blunting edge,
  loosing bond,
  dimming light,
  the way is the dust of the way.

  Quiet
  yes, and likely to endure.
  Whose child? Born
  before the gods.
9: Being Quiet

  Brim-fill the bowl,
  it'll spill over.
  Keep sharpening the blade,
  you'll soon blunt it.

  Nobody can protect
  a house full of gold and jade.

  Wealth, status, pride
  are their own ruin.
  To do good, work well, and lie low
  is the way of the blessing.

For 4, some of the concepts don't even appear in the original (quiet?)

For 9, it feels like there's a lot of overstepping and blank-filling.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#32

None of these translations work if you really want to understand the work itself and not the author's interpretation. For example, in the Analects ,『學而優則仕』is translated by Legge as "The student, having completed his learning, should apply himself to be an officer." This isn't what the sentence says. It could be what it means but that should be up to the reader. (This is a common phrase in Chinese and has a completly…

Technically you can say this to most text. You can even say practically no one alive never read The Bible.

[deleted]

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#33
This is my favorite edition, as it is the one I discovered from my parents' bookshelf in my early college years. Highly recommend the translation, and the photos. Lao Tsu's writing is just as relevant today as when it was originally written, thousands of years ago.

The original edition from 1972 is available on Amazon, as well: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Lao-Tsu/dp/039471833X

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#34
has anyone read the translation by james legge? that's the only copy i have but i haven't got around to reading it yet. would it be better to go with something else even if i have to pay for it?

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/laozi/tao-te-ching/james-l...

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#35

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

There was a period in my life in my early 20s when I dabbled heavily in taoism. The book was a staple read for me and I tried to adjust my Outlook accordingly for a long time.

Finally though, i dropped it and went back to who I was. Your comment makes me wonder if the specific translation of the book I read was a big factor.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#37

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

> Maybe there should be a new form of digital translation, just like hovering texts on Duolingo and it will display all the possible meanings of the word/expression.

If anyone's interested, I've already self-promoted on a previous Tao Te Ching thread a tool/website[0] which precisely does that. I've still haven't had the time to add the Tao Te Ching though (and I've just observed one or two bugs. Oh well.)

[0]: https://zhongmu.eu/book.html#c=2;w=2;b=qian-zi-wen

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#38
post #37

I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…

> Maybe there should be a new form of digital translation, just like hovering texts on Duolingo and it will display all the possible meanings of the word/expression. If anyone's interested, I've already self-promoted on a previous Tao Te Ching thread a tool/website[0] which precisely does that. I've still haven't had the time to add the Tao Te Ching though (and I've just observed one or two bugs. Oh well.) [0]: https…

There’s also [0], which has the same functionality (click the >> icon).

[0] https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#39
post #5

I remember reading Stephen Mitchell's version waaaay back in 1991, when I was still young and impressionable. There was one line that really blew me away in his translation, and I might be remembering it slightly incorrectly: "The Tao is older than God".

I think the line you’re referring to is 象帝之先. I haven’t studied ancient Chinese (speak modern mandarin) but that would approximate to:

象 has the appearance of/seems to

帝 the Di, the highest or supreme deity/Zeus like king-of-the-gods

之先 A (the Dao) comes (typically chronologically or in terms of precedence) prior to B (The Di)

I think there may be an analogy to neo Platonic emanations (including as imagined by Christian thinkers ) in Western thought where the One or ground of Being comes logically prior to the gods/angels/spiritual powers etc.

Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)

#40
post #38
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe there should be a new form of digital translation, just like hovering texts on Duolingo and it will display all the possible meanings of the word/expression. If anyone's interested, I've already self-promoted on a previous Tao Te Ching thread a tool/website[0] which precisely does that. I've still haven't had the time to add the Tao Te Ching though (and I've just observed one or two bugs. Oh well.) [0]: https…

There’s also [0], which has the same functionality (click the >> icon). [0] https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing

Thanks, I didn't knew about it
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