Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

lists.csail.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 300 posts

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#201

Post by davidhollander »

noduerme wrote: post #182
davidhollander wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the point of contention is lack of clarification of definitions and terms, particularly regarding 'freedom', the OP's phrase 'heinous violations of freedom', and the concept of violations of freedom in general. I would define 'freedom' in a very narrow and non-metaphysical sense, as 'the ability to make choices free of threats of violence by others'. I derive this definition by asking the following question…

How incredibly academic. Let's leave the ongoing debate about how to "characterize [their] actions" until a universal definition of 'freedom' is agreed upon. That should satisfy the monsters. I think Sartre settled this one. We're either wholly determined, or else wholly free. And since consciousness means that fate isn't preordained - we're free. Anyway, in case he was off the mark, the alternative is a boot on a hu…

To resummarize my position above:

A 'violation of freedom' requires the use of force by an authority. A parent forcing a child to go somewhere in spite of their preferences is a 'violation of freedom'. A government forcing a citizen to go somewhere in spite of their preferences is a 'violation of freedom'. Neither the first case nor the second case are necessarily the same proportionality or equally 'heinous'. 'heinous violations of freedom' implies massive and egregious use of force by authority. The institutionalized system of heinous violations of freedom is known as Authoritarianism.

A company voluntarily offering a free service that users have the option of using if it fulfills their preferences has not committed a 'violation of freedom'. It is not capable of committing a 'violation of freedom' unless it first asserts the right to use force and becomes an authority. Accusing it of violations of freedom that are heinous is to accuse it of Authoritarianism.

Have I "owned up" to my position by repeating it with sufficient clarity? Could you be kind enough to point out the logical fallacies in my position, which I have offered for public critique solely so that others may help me clarify it, before accusing me of trolling?

I do not believe this matter has been previously settled by Sartre without the use of metaphysics, I generally side with Wittgenstein that clarity of definition is needed to resolve philosophical conflict.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#202

Post by psychotik »

bullies wrote: post #174
psychotik wrote: post #95

I have a love-hate/hypocritical relationship with Facebook, but one that prevents me from not using it. Even if I want to not use it, I have to because: 1) I have a product that users want to use with Facebook, so I need to use FB APIs etc and understand how it works for real users 2) I have a product that can benefit from viral-ness on Facebook I wonder how many other developers share such ambivalence about being fo…

You don't have to use facebook, you want to. A product doesn't force, humans do.

To understand user scenarios, I _have_ to.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#204

Post by aasarava »

charlieok wrote: post #167
coffeemug wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a world of difference between citizens complaining how their governments are corrupt, and husbands complaining how their wives boss them around. The former is a macro problem - if you're unhappy there's very little you can do to make a difference, you really need everyone to get behind your cause but because of weird behavioral science quirks this happens very rarely. The latter is a micro problem - learn to…

You tried camping and it was awesome. It was fun getting a group together and having a lot of interaction with them. Working on projects together, sharing gossip at meals and in tents, going on day trips and coming back with pictures and stories. Great stuff. People who spend time camping together share a bond and become potential lifelong friends. When camping was new, relatively few people went camping. The most ex…

If camping is a metaphor for social interaction, then wouldn't picking up the phone, or writing a letter, or sending an email, or a text, or driving over to your friends' houses and saying, "Hey, let's go to a coffee shop" be the real camping you're looking for?

You're setting up a zero sum analogy, assuming that everyone is so busy on Facebook that they no longer interact or share photos/jokes/memes in other ways. Not sure that's really the case.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#205

Post by fioll »

Facebook isn't a free service based on GNU software. I don't even see why there is any discussion at all about this. I like Stallman despite his quirks. And I respect his views. But he won't influence my decision to use Facebook or other non-GNU software. My approach, which I wish Stallman would support but he never will, is to use whatever is free that is a good service, even if it isn't truly GNU free and open-source. That is because I'm not only cheap, but I respect that often people that do good work are inspired by money. One day, after the end of the human world, the chosen few will be surrounded with those that want to do what is best for each other, not themselves. And that is the day Richard looks forward to, and he is an activist to that effect, and I think that is wonderful. However, I think he thinks he can make this happen on his own by denying capitalism. That is the wrong tact. Free can be embraced by ignoring money altogether instead of fighting it.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#206

Post by kelnos »

coffeemug wrote: post #149
noduerme wrote: post #10

When I was a kid, my parents sent me to camp, even though all I wanted to do was sit home and write text adventures in BASIC. I hated camp. I hated the kids, and the counselors, and most of all I hated how everyone acted like if you didn't like it, if you weren't having fun, then there was something messed up about you . Facebook = camp. The most oppressive and authoritarian thing about it is, at root, that most peop…

There is a world of difference between citizens complaining how their governments are corrupt, and husbands complaining how their wives boss them around. The former is a macro problem - if you're unhappy there's very little you can do to make a difference, you really need everyone to get behind your cause but because of weird behavioral science quirks this happens very rarely. The latter is a micro problem - learn to…

There are a few "weird" kids who cannot understand how people could possibly like Facebook, so they make it a personal crusade to make it known all the time.

"I don't have a Facebook account" is the new "I don't even own a TV".

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#207

Post by mquander »

zbuc wrote: post #141
msbarnett wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is the mailing list incident where, when someone congratulated another contributor on the birth of their child, Stallman labelled the entire phenomenon of childbirth as "menacing" and went on to say "these birth announcements also spread the myth that having a baby is something to be proud of, which fuels natalist pressure, which leads to pollution, extinction of wildlife, poverty, and ultimately mass sta…

Also the conversation a few weeks back where free software enthusiasts who developed non-free software at their jobs were talking with him... http://lunduke.com/?p=2273 > You see, I make software for most of my living. And I talked with Stallman (in email) before the show, about how I would love to get any ideas he has on how a developer, of proprietary software, can move that software to a Free and Open license… whi…

Do you care to elaborate? Your whole blog post is spent describing his rude tone, not addressing any of the content of his remarks.

It is really, really not obvious to me whether the world would be better off if you and I stopped writing proprietary software, did something else as a career, and wrote free software as a hobby. That is a hard question. My intuition agrees with Stallman.

Whether or not you agree too, it's obvious from his published opinions that he has thought hard about (and acted in accordance with) the specific goal: what helps humanity the most? That is the clear point of his answer to you and it is the polar opposite of misanthropy.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#208

Post by kelnos »

Tichy wrote: post #193
coffeemug wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a world of difference between citizens complaining how their governments are corrupt, and husbands complaining how their wives boss them around. The former is a macro problem - if you're unhappy there's very little you can do to make a difference, you really need everyone to get behind your cause but because of weird behavioral science quirks this happens very rarely. The latter is a micro problem - learn to…

"carefully select privacy settings (which are quite extensive)" That's ridiculous. Maybe you'll try a couple of times to keep up with their changes, but eventually you'll just give up. Besides, they will constantly tempt you to share more (that is how they grow).

Then that's your own fault. I check my privacy settings every couple months, or when I hear about or see large changes to the interface or offering getting rolled out. I've been on Facebook since April 2004, only a few months after they launched, so clearly I haven't eventually given up.

Using the "View As" feature and looking at your profile page while logged out is a good idea too.

If you care about your privacy and still want to be on Facebook, this is (unfortunately) a mandatory activity.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#210

Post by noduerme »

charlieok wrote: post #186
charlieok wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tried camping and it was awesome. It was fun getting a group together and having a lot of interaction with them. Working on projects together, sharing gossip at meals and in tents, going on day trips and coming back with pictures and stories. Great stuff. People who spend time camping together share a bond and become potential lifelong friends. When camping was new, relatively few people went camping. The most ex…

p.s. If the parent comment resonated with you, you might like this presentation: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/A-P2P-Digital-Self-with-T...

That resonated like hitting a 40' bong.

I remember ... X person used to say about Y, in my family... "Why the hell would anyone wanna live under his roof, and live by his rules? Even if they had to sleep on the street it'd be better".

I reckon it's about the same for self-respecting men living with Zuckerberg.

Post reply on HN