Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education • Hacker News Board

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#671

Post by dxd » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:35 AM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #611

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

> anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like and there's no judgement of any of your actions Wow, what a terrible take. If anyone needs religion to live a moral life, I'm glad they have found it and hope they never lose it. I'm judged by my peers, my family, my community, and my country. But even if I wasn't, I would know what's right and what's wrong. Moreover, I guess it's good that amoral people can find eth…

Ah, moral relativism. I believe there is no way around the idea that without religion, there is no such thing as morality. It all comes down to the question: how do you know what's right and wrong? If you don't have an external moral code, that is, you decide what is right and wrong, then the odds are stacked against you, 1 out of every individual with a unique opinion to ever exist; it is conceited for anyone to believe they are the one. Not even the majority is always correct; at one point in time the majority of the Earth believed slavery was fine, yet today we are so comfortable to say that was evil. I couldn't agree more strongly that it is evil, but what will the majority of society think about our morals in a millennium? Why start "the 21st century popular culture religion" when it is inevitably fallible to time? The only possible solution is an external moral code. That is what the Bible, the Koran, etc... are: absolute right and absolute wrong. If that doesn't exist, why should I believe I'm any better than Hitler? He believed he was right. You wouldn't even be able to reason that murder is evil. Ultimately, there is no other basis for an atheist than: "That's what I feel is right, so that's what I believe."

Sidenote: I am a Christian, so I'd like to briefly correct the "(when women were without worth, slavery was acceptable, etc)" phrase pertaining to Christianity solely. At its core, the Bible teaches the very opposite of sexism and racism, however, misconstrued verses and nominal Christians distort the message.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#672

Post by _dark_matter_ » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:35 AM UTC

sfink wrote: post #229

jawns wrote: post #150

People talk about homeschooling as if it's one single concept, but it's actually a whole bunch of very dissimilar things. There are people who homeschool because they don't agree with the government's viewpoints, people who homeschool because the public school system has failed their kids, people who homeschool because it just happens to fit their lifestyle. Those are all very different motivations. Likewise, there a…

Thank you. I came here to say this. We're homeschooling, and I made the mistake of reading the train wreck of comments on the Post article. It was irritating how many people were absolutely certain of what homeschooling is and what its shortcomings (or successes) are, when it's nowhere close to being one thing. Homeschooling is defined by what it is not. Homeschooling because of COVID policies in public schools? Ok,…

On the other hand, I've watched my nieces and nephews - now aged 5-13 - fail to learn to do math (any), write, read, even _say the alphabet_.

We've called the school district, CPS, and the police. None are able to do anything. These children are being raised to live in poverty.

So yes, I'm against home schooling because it leaves some kids worse off. We have to enforce standards, and until we do I will not comply.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#673

Post by freeopinion » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:36 AM UTC

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #527

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

As someone who was raised in religious communities, that "higher aspirations" is only the position "in principle" in reality working with people in the religious community was just scams and moral self justification of despicable behavior hidden behind soft language and terrible behavior. So much contention, so much gossip, so much backbiting behavior and hidden evils against children so that communities wouldn't "lo…

I am reminded of people who grew up in the USA, became familiar with all its faults, and now think Scandinavia or Asia has all the right answers, because they've never observed those faults in everyday life over many years.

Presumably, for all your religious upbringing, you are right-minded enough to not have all those faults. So either you are an amazing exception, or you are not.

There is good and bad in the USA, and in Scandinavia or Asia. And of course there are genuine and false religious people and non-religious people. Indeed, there are both in each of us.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#674

Post by JackMorgan » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:40 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #554

underwater wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird take. Religions ability to influence behaviour works because of our lizard brain, not despite it. The idea of God judging people from afar is an extension of the important humans place on social conformity. We are hard wired to care about what other people think of us. If you remove the religious decorarions then that underlying trait still exists.

// Religions ability to influence behaviour works because of our lizard brain Totally not my experience. My lizard brain doesn't want to keep the Sabbath, or spend an hour at the temple, or to donate a lot (or anything) to charity, it doesn't really want to bother raising my kids a certain way, or to be discriminant in my diet, sexual behavior, etc. It is my higher-level self that sees the elevating function of these…

I don't see this as evidence of the contrary. Church attenders want to fit in with their peers at the church who are all doing the same thing. This is why there are so many hundreds of Christian sects, they are all trying to follow their local church's interpretation of the Bible. Individuals who read the Bible and come to even slightly different conclusions get kicked out of that church, so there is little incentive to read and think for one's self. Everyone is expected to read and come the same conclusions as their local leadership, or they will be browbeat and excommunicated.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#675

Post by qup » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

rpmisms wrote: post #584

gemstones wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real. It's telling that the kids don't jump in here to defend the practice, hardly ever (also homeschooled, education was great, socialization was absolutely problematic despite doing all the homeschool group things.)

That's BS. I was unschooled (except for paying my way for my associate's degree when I was 13), and I wouldn't put a kid through school. The freedom let me get my first coding job at 17, and I was freelancing well before that. I got to do what I wanted, and I would be crippled if I was stuck in the thought patterns that public school entails. Socialization was hard, mostly because the other kids my age were really, w…

You can say it until you're blue in the face, point out how obviously true it is, and they can't see it. They'll invent excuses why you're wrong.

What are you working on?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#676

Post by WoodEye » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #456

traject_ wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it boggles my mind how people can assume, with a straight face, that they are equipped to educate their child alone - something which is normally a profession for which you have to study O(years) (and even then most people aren’t really good at). The key assumption here is that the expertise and years of studying translates to desirable outcomes. The large expansion of homeschooling suggesting by the article su…

>The large expansion of homeschooling suggesting by the article suggests a great rise in people who no longer believe that the expertise promoted by teaching schools is actually relevant to teach their children. "Believe" is the important word there. Are these people removing children from school because they actually can do a better job, or because the TV told them a school somewhere had a litterbox for a furry stud…

> "Believe" is the important word there. Are these people removing children from school because they actually can do a better job, or because the TV told them a school somewhere had a litterbox for a furry student?

Does it matter why they pulled their kid out to homeschool if the outcome is better?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#677

Post by jurynulifcation » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:43 AM UTC

ulizzle wrote: post #633

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was raised in religious communities, that "higher aspirations" is only the position "in principle" in reality working with people in the religious community was just scams and moral self justification of despicable behavior hidden behind soft language and terrible behavior. So much contention, so much gossip, so much backbiting behavior and hidden evils against children so that communities wouldn't "lo…

I’ve seen far more contention, gossip, and backbiting behavior in secular groups, saying this as someone who didn’t go back to religion until only a few years ago. Let’s not pretend that being secular somehow makes you levitate or something. Check out the “new atheists” and their démise. The funny part is that everyone is talking about this sort of inherent internal moral guidance, which flies in the face of the mode…

"which flies in the face of the modern scientific thought"

citations. please. show me the researchers who claim to have empirical knowledge of human morality.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#678

Post by henry_bone » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:44 AM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #611

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

> anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like and there's no judgement of any of your actions Wow, what a terrible take. If anyone needs religion to live a moral life, I'm glad they have found it and hope they never lose it. I'm judged by my peers, my family, my community, and my country. But even if I wasn't, I would know what's right and what's wrong. Moreover, I guess it's good that amoral people can find eth…

No one needs religion to lead a moral life. That's not the argument.

But without the transcendent, without a higher power, we have no grounding for our morality. Everything becomes subjective and "post-modern". Actions then become "justifiable" - if there is such a thing - by whatever criteria suits us: the greater good, the good of the nation, whatever. But essentially self-interest takes over completely.

The more we move away from God the worse our societies will become.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#679

Post by WoodEye » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:45 AM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #76

pjc50 wrote: post #31

So .. I was homeschooled for a couple of years, in the UK, and had a relatively normal if solitary experience. But that was because my mother was a qualified teacher who'd stopped working, and I was a smart kid. This left me naturally favourable to the idea. Since then it's become clear that there are basically two categories of homeschoolers: those that want to bring in extra education beyond what the public school…

This too is my experience. I grew up in a place with a large number of religious organizations and outcome of this is what I would consider abuse in a huge number of cases. Would the children themselves think so at the time, kinda hard when you're taught "spare the rod, spoil the child" and "Of course the Earth is only 6000 years old" daily.

I guarantee you (and the data backs this up) that the home schooled religious kids that are taught the earth is 6,000 years old and were spanked can run circles academically around the average public school kid.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#680

Post by paulryanrogers » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 2:45 AM UTC

dgunay wrote: post #310

Ignoring the education/socialization arguments, I'm surprised to see that no one has mentioned the ostensibly reduced risk of your homeschooled child becoming the victim of a school shooting. Go on and tell me how statistically the risk is negligible. It makes me feel a bit anxious whenever someone I love is doing _anything_ with a tail risk of instant death that society has somehow normalized, even just driving. I'm…

That is one consideration. I'm surprised more gun owners don't consider how much more likely their choice is to lead to accident or suicidal death in their own home.

If we outlawed private gun ownership in the country then both school and home could be much safer.