Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education • Hacker News Board

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#571

Post by spondylosaurus » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:55 PM UTC

kulahan wrote: post #525

kelnos wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised very Catholic (and decided by my early teens that I didn't believe in any of it), and I completely disagree with your conclusion. Organized religion (at least Christianity) absolutely is about deep fear. "Do this or you'll go to hell!" "Believe this or you'll go to hell!" Repeat ad infinitum. I won't deny that some churches (as in, specific people, not the system as a whole) can do good in the world; one…

You've misunderstood Catholicism. The entire reason Christianity is so radical is because it's the first major religion of purely love. There is no need to sacrifice anyone, you get infinite forgiveness, so long as you truly repent, and nearly every facet of Catholicism is based around the idea of love. A fine example is the incredibly important Corinthians 13:13: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But…

> ...you get infinite forgiveness, so long as you truly repent...

Thinking back to an earlier comment up the chain (from someone else) about how being nonreligious doesn't offer enough moral guidance, and I kinda think the "infinite forgiveness" thing is exponentially more fraught than even the most detached "nothing really matters" atheist.

Being able to do literally anything and not face cosmic consequences so long as you say you're sorry is mind-boggling to me. I wonder if it's partly why so many convicted murderers get born-again when they're in prison.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#572

Post by ok123456 » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

marcusverus wrote: post #283

haizhung wrote: post #261

Am I the only one thinking that home schooling is the wrong solution to the underlying problem? The problem is that the public education sector has been - for years - continuously squeezed dry of any funding. Teachers are quitting left and right, and schools are in a terrible state. Instead of fixing THAT problem, now people homeschool. Ok; I guess. At least homeschooling is something that the individual can control,…

> The problem is that the public education sector has been - for years - continuously squeezed dry of any funding. Public school spending in the US is up almost 50% in the last 30 years.[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203118/expenditures-per-...

NCLB and charter schools made that bucket very leaky.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#573

Post by petertodd » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

trealira wrote: post #557

petertodd wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's actually a whole bunch of very dissimilar things. Even in the same kid it can be very dissimilar. The main reason I was homeschooled was that the local school system's ridiculous "whole word" approach to reading and writing was failing me badly, and by age ten I still could barely read. So that part of my homeschooling experience was very traditional, hands on, drilling in phonics and other time tested tec…

> Funny thing is I actually learned basic programming _before_ I could read fluently. I remember the hardest thing about it being struggling to read the books I was learning from. Programming itself seemed pretty straightforward in comparison. That's really interesting. How did you get introduced to programming? For example, did someone show you BASIC interpreter on a computer? (Not knowing your age, I don't know whe…

I didn't even have a computer to use when I was initially learning. I'm not quite sure how I decided I wanted to learn, as I didn't have any friends or family who were programmers. But somehow I got interested and got books on BASIC and other simple languages from the library. I wrote my first programs with pen and paper on the kitchen table and had to "run" them in my head. I was probably about 7 or 8 years old, and didn't actually get access to a programmable computer until I was 10 (Hypercard on the school's computer lab). Which really frustrated me, as I didn't have access to a manual for Hypercard, so I couldn't figure out how to translate the ideas I knew from BASIC like loops into Hypercard.

It took until I was about 11 or so to finally get a computer of my own, a $50, rather antique at the time, IBM XT. Though really, the real breakthrough was when I got my second computer, a 286 or so that I literally took from a neighbor's trash. That computer I could mess around with without worrying about breaking it!

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#574

Post by davemp » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #518

gemstones wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real. It's telling that the kids don't jump in here to defend the practice, hardly ever (also homeschooled, education was great, socialization was absolutely problematic despite doing all the homeschool group things.)

You must be skipping over all of the comments on this thread where homeschooled kids do exactly that. Hi. I was homeschooled. I graduated university top of my class, have a high-skill high-paying job, think more critically (about everything including religion) than most people that I know, and overall I enjoy my life very much. I'm homeschooling my kids.

Pretty similar background here. Maybe successfully homeschooled adults are just hesitant to dive into this sort of discussion anecdote first?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#575

Post by eszed » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:58 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #111

eszed wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning. Except... >More Than 80% Of Four-Year Colleges Won’t Require Standardized Tests For Fall 2023 Admissions >An additional 85 schools will be test-blind or score-free, meaning that applicants’ standardized exam results are not considered even if they are submitted. Included in that number is the entire Californi…

"Test-optional" and "test-blind" are vastly different. If I can get a leg up on the competition by taking the test, then it's basically required even if it's technically optional.

True. I find the ideological movement against standardized testing really disturbing. Their basic point is that students from affluent families are more likely to do well on standardized tests (which is true), and that therefore eliminating the tests as enrollment requirements will level the playing field (which does not follow).

For instance - to use your example - which student is more likely to be given your advice: the one from an affluent family attending a well-funded school, or the (let's posit much smarter) one from a family of non-college attendees living in an under-funded district? When the SAT was a formal requirement they'd be more likely to be judged on an actually level playing field.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#576

Post by brightball » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 11:59 PM UTC

blt wrote: post #479

mrguyorama wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only exist as an educated person who can make a middle class income and live a normal life because of public education. My single mother is an experienced and gifted teacher, but would not have had the time to educate me. We could never have afforded to send me to any private school. My only chance for a normal life and education was public school. A huge amount of americans are poor in time and money. The only opt…

> Society will not be a better place for your kids if they are individually 10% better but 10% of the children born in the US basically have no access to education. But that's not how they think. They believe the bottom 10% deserve their hard lives. Capitalism needs an oppressed class to function. The people on top write laws to ensure the oppressed class will exist. Then they sell it to the middle class using scary…

Or, people believe that the school system as it exists now has serious problems under layers of unchangeable management so the best solution is a different option.

You’ll know this by the people who campaign for voucher programs that we’re all told are evil somehow. Yet the goal of vouchers is to make all options available to everyone.

Without vouchers, all options are only available to those with financial options.

You can go to public school, private school or a home school program. If you want a better public school, you have to move to a better rated school district. In order to do that, you have to be able to afford it.

Without vouchers, poor families only option is public school where they currently live. People opposed to vouchers have 1 goal: preserve the status quo. They’ll tell you absolutely anything to convince you otherwise too.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#577

Post by axlee » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 12:02 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #552

jkestner wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like and there's no judgement of any of your actions." That doesn't match reality. Do you have kids in public school? Of course they judge actions—especially those that harm others. Sometimes that's called social-emotional learning, one of the things that Florida politicians have tried to make a boogeyman. We're certainly willing to punish kids based…

I meant something different by "anything goes." I am ~40 and was born in Eastern Europe -- but even in the US, back then there was still a strong value that a good life a combination of having a family and raising the next generation, ability to work to support your family and contribution to society through your work. Whereas even in "my time" these values would have resonated with the tone in a public school, I am…

> I meant something different by "anything goes." I am ~40 and was born in Eastern Europe -- but even in the US, back then there was still a strong value that a good life a combination of having a family and raising the next generation, ability to work to support your family and contribution to society through your work. Whereas even in "my time" these values would have resonated with the tone in a public school, I am pretty sure that's not going to be the case today.

I'm not aware of that class in the curriculum. Is it supposed to be taught during math, history, geology or sports?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#578

Post by bcrosby95 » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 12:02 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #411

marcusverus wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the public education sector has been - for years - continuously squeezed dry of any funding. Public school spending in the US is up almost 50% in the last 30 years.[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203118/expenditures-per-...

Where's all that money going? Surely not to teachers who are chronically underpaid and have 30+ students per class. It's not buying school supplies, which our teachers often have to pay for out of pocket or hold bake sales to fund. Is it all going to football fields, useless technology spending, and 5 levels of non-teaching administration staff?

For our kids' school, the main thing that jumps out to me compared to when I was a kid is that each class has a paid aide. So there's 1 teacher per 30 or so students, but there's also an aide in there, so 1 adult per 15 students.

I don't know if every school does this. But ours is public and I wouldn't have known this was a thing if my wife didn't volunteer.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#579

Post by brandonmenc » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 12:03 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #515

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

I was raised very Catholic (and decided by my early teens that I didn't believe in any of it), and I completely disagree with your conclusion. Organized religion (at least Christianity) absolutely is about deep fear. "Do this or you'll go to hell!" "Believe this or you'll go to hell!" Repeat ad infinitum. I won't deny that some churches (as in, specific people, not the system as a whole) can do good in the world; one…

Well I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school all the way up and through high school, decided I was a hardcore atheist around 8th grade (long since pure agnostic btw), butted heads and debated constantly in Theology class, and I disagree with you.

Very few of my Catholic friends and family seem to be motivated by fear, and even at my most annoying and confrontational no one ever tried to “scare” me back into believing.

ymmv, of course.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#580

Post by peakskill » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 12:03 AM UTC

jawns wrote: post #150

People talk about homeschooling as if it's one single concept, but it's actually a whole bunch of very dissimilar things. There are people who homeschool because they don't agree with the government's viewpoints, people who homeschool because the public school system has failed their kids, people who homeschool because it just happens to fit their lifestyle. Those are all very different motivations. Likewise, there a…

Point of homeschooling is precisely that it's individualized instruction meant to, hopefully, match your kid's needs.