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Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

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Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#391

Post by babypuncher »

pests wrote: post #243
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

NextDoor is the absolute fucking worst with this. They sign you up to 10+ lists each in over 9+ categories that results in what feels like 100 different "notification types". Unsubscribing from an email just unsubscribes from that one list. They don't show any other lists or categories (or imply there are more) during this process. Once you login you are greeted with a multi-page disaster to manually untoggle each of…

This should be illegal

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#392

Post by evangow »

Sytten wrote: post #151

Does this apply to all emails including transactional? What I am supposed to do if a user requests a password reset but unsubscribed from our emails? Most of the spam I received these days is from gmail addresses these days.

This is a great question. I would love to see more documentation on what this means for transactional emails.

Adding systems in place to handle unsubscribing from transactional emails will mean quite a bit of engineering time/effort for many companies.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#393

Post by wredue »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #102
wredue wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, send an email saying “Hey. You unsubscribed. Here’s a link to resubscribe if you happen to want to!” Right after someone unsubs.

You could also send them a reminder a few days later, just to be sure that they meant it. And then perhaps every week or so for good measure.

There’s a far cry difference giving someone a subscription link at unsub time and spamming resub links.

It’s already pretty standard practice to send an email notifying that the unsub request was processed.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#394

Post by mrWiz »

autoexec wrote: post #343
RF_Savage wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, who do you contact about that violation?

Here you go: https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-spam You can probably guess how effective that is. In practice, unless you can get the FTC or a state attorney general to sue an actual company for you, nothing will ever come of it.

I report spam that I'm unable to unsubscribe from to the FTC via their online page[0]. I've never gotten any response but it does seem to work. I've been dropped from several marketing lists after reporting them to the FTC, and it's unlikely that these marketers decided on their own to remove me from their lists.

[0] https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#395

Post by everforward »

Synchro wrote: post #346
bruckie wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope they make it really strict. The threshold is "spam rates reported in Postmaster Tools below 0.3%". That sounds pretty low to me, but I'm not in the bulk email business. I guess maybe a very small number of users actually report spam? Or maybe Google is being strict. Source: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#zippy=%2Crequir ... (I work for Google, but on something totally unrelated, and don't speak…

One of the key problems is that both gmail and Yahoo UIs actively encourage users to report messages as spam rather than unsubscribing. Yahoo is particularly bad at this; it's common for me to receive spam reports from yahoo on an entirely double-opt-in social site I run. My reaction there is to remove the reporter from all lists because the amount of damage a single spam report can do is immense; a single spam repor…

> One of the key problems is that both gmail and Yahoo UIs actively encourage users to report messages as spam rather than unsubscribing.

I think this is, generally, the correct approach. There isn't really a salient reason to discriminate between "email I don't want from someone I don't know" ("true spam", if you will), and "email I don't want from someone I do know" (aggressive newsletter campaigns et al). Spam is the button to send a signal that you got an email you didn't want.

> My reaction there is to remove the reporter from all lists because the amount of damage a single spam report can do is immense; a single spam report can block delivery for weeks at a time to the 10k others that legitimately requested messages.

This is the system working as intended to me, as the customer of the email service. I like that my email provider is throwing their weight around to put the fear of God into bulk senders and forcing them to think about how this campaign will impact their sendability. I would much rather annoy the hell out of bulk senders than cede emails to spammers like we have with phones.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#396

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

The Information are so incredibly bad for this. I've requested unsubscriptions multiple times from them and they just can't seem to manage it. Like, presumably their audience won't use them but still it rankles.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#397

Post by hyeonwho22 »

Wojtkie wrote: post #387
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

Nextdoor is the absolute worst about this. Selecting unsubscribe only lets you unsubscribe from the "type" of email they're sending you. After unsubscribing 7 or 8 times I just reported the whole domain as spam and blocked it.

You have much more patience than I. After the second email type I deleted my account.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#398

Post by max51 »

pembrook wrote: post #191
Macha wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly sounds like I'm on the side of Gmail here. Think about this from the perspective of an actual spammer. You get a notification that address XYZ is marked as spam by user ABC. Well, now you just email user ABC from a different address.

Not even spammers want to waste time & money emailing people who have already marked their emails as spam (that's as clear a signal as any to move onto the next victim). The real problem is, for legitimate senders, the people who send less emails actually get higher levels of spam complaints! This is because humans are human and they forget who you are. I would argue this actually incentivizes sending more emails. Th…

I disagree with your analysis. I think they will limit the amount emails with garbage that people don't want to see if they risk getting their entire domain blocked over it.

I also don't think it's complicated for the "little guys". The solution to avoid getting banned is simply to not send mass spam. It's not rocket science, don't mass email people knowing that they get mad at you when see your emails in their inbox.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#399

Post by pests »

josephg wrote: post #373
pests wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NextDoor is the absolute fucking worst with this. They sign you up to 10+ lists each in over 9+ categories that results in what feels like 100 different "notification types". Unsubscribing from an email just unsubscribes from that one list. They don't show any other lists or categories (or imply there are more) during this process. Once you login you are greeted with a multi-page disaster to manually untoggle each of…

Why do you bother fighting to unsubscribe properly with a company like that? I have a rule: I will try 1 time to legitimately unsubscribe, using the normal flow. If you keep sending me email after that, I will mark every email you send as spam and my email provider will stop delivering your mail. I started doing this years ago after watching a talk by some Gmail devs on how they think of spam. They said they internal…

I was taking a low-effort apporch of just unsubscribing from emails and newsletters as they came in. I saw a huge decrease in unwanted emails at first but NextDoor kept coming _no matter what_. Finnally in frustration I logged in, did half the above unsubscribing, then just deleted my account instead. I agree.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#400

Post by kposehn »

While I'm all for doing a better job at reducing spam, this also will effectively drive a lot of those advertising dollars that go into bulk email straight into sponsored email products from Google and Yahoo.

The main webmail platforms do not benefit economically from spam. They have every incentive to turn it to their advantage by diverting ad dollars from bulk email and forcing it into their own ad platforms.

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