Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

lists.csail.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 300 posts

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#111

Post by marshallp »

jrockway wrote: post #47
marshallp wrote: post #42

At this point facebook is just a branch of the NSA and CIA. They're laughing it up while the clueless kid Zuckerberg thinks he's creating "a social graph". How about an "open" social graph you jackass - you know, THE WEB. Hopefully governments step in to break up this evil oonopoly that's on it's way to another microsoft, AT&T, Standard Oil. However, it might too late already, since the NSA and CIA desperately want f…

What? Can't the NSA use an open graph just as easily as a closed one? And with Facebook, you only have to worry about the government abusing the graph. With an open graph, anyone could abuse it. (Including: advertisers, angry ex-s, people that were upset that they lost a flamewar with you, etc.)

When people use the open web they censor themselves.

Also, on facebook people engage in bullshittery, while on the open, sites such as this people at least might learn/teach a thing or two.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#112

Post by jlarocco »

noduerme wrote: post #10

When I was a kid, my parents sent me to camp, even though all I wanted to do was sit home and write text adventures in BASIC. I hated camp. I hated the kids, and the counselors, and most of all I hated how everyone acted like if you didn't like it, if you weren't having fun, then there was something messed up about you . Facebook = camp. The most oppressive and authoritarian thing about it is, at root, that most peop…

This is a really confusing post.

Nobody cares that you don't like Facebook because nobody is forcing you to use Facebook. I'm at a loss as to how you can consider it "oppressive" and "authoritarian." Did some thugs from FB come around signing people up at gunpoint?

I don't even see what you're trying to achieve, really. You just want other people to stop using Facebook because you don't like it?

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#113

Post by noduerme »

pavanky wrote: post #73
noduerme wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not on FB, so it's not. But if I were... I'd say the first thing to be violated would be my freedom to be left alone. To not know what other people were doing, or have them know what I'm doing. To be able to quietly tune the world out and focus on things. Then, of course, my right to own images of myself, to keep my location private, to register genuine surprise, in person, when I find out one of my friends is en…

> I'm not on FB, so it's not. But if I were... I'd say the first thing to be violated would be my freedom to be left alone Thats not a freedom, that is a choice. You can have a facebook account and never log in to it. There may be other privacy concerns, but "freedom to be left alone" is not one of them.

When I'm on FB, and Joe X sends me a friend request, it goes in my email. Since I'm on FB, the implicit assumption is that I got the request. If I think Joe is nice enough, but not really my friend, I'm suddenly forced to (a) accept a friend who's not my friend, and imply I like him more than I do, (b) reject the request and make him think I don't like him, or (c) lie and say I don't get facebook emails.

In reality, I would have far more options; there's a long gradient of subtle ways to let him know to what extent he's my friend or not. Most of all, I would have the option to defer making any kind of statement, assuming he's not a nutcase who asked me "so are we really friends?" And that deferral -- plausible deniability -- is the first thing FB takes away. That's what I call the freedom to be left alone.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#114

Post by ben1040 »

Estragon wrote: post #16
jpeterson wrote: post #3

This is the only time I've ever agreed with RMS. Facebook is a disease. Please do not require me to log in to it for your cause.

Came back from a talk by a Facebook Data Team member a little while ago. Don't have time to look it up now, but he cited Bakshy et al 2012 as a paper describing Facebook research in which a proportion of "Likes" from friends were censored for selected users in order to gather information on a social science question. The talk was pretty incoherent on what question they were investigating; I get the impression that it…

http://www.scribd.com/facebook/d/78445521-Role-of-Social-Net...

This looks like it could be the paper in question.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#115

Post by salgernon »

freehunter wrote: post #23
jpeterson wrote: post #3

This is the only time I've ever agreed with RMS. Facebook is a disease. Please do not require me to log in to it for your cause.

I agree that Facebook login should not be mandatory, but I do like the option to not have to create another account with every site just to leave a comment or try their service. Facebook and OpenID should be standard options, as well as local accounts. Although I dislike some of Facebook's policies, I don't hate them.

I deleted my facebook account because I determined that what it cost me to host my data there (and to consume their services) was more than I was willing to spend - and that this cost was creeping up over time without giving me the opportunity to decline.

The currency in this case is the information that I'm providing them, either explicitly through postings and 'Like's on external sites, or implicitly by their plumbing of my social graph.

I would actually feel much better if facebook were a paid service, since then they would have an incentive to maintain me as a customer.

I'd rather that a third party with whom I've already established a financial relationship (Apple, Amazon, UPS or Fedex, etc) could provide an authentication token that could be used as a universal login.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#116

Post by tedunangst »

crazygringo wrote: post #92
9999 wrote: post #75

Stallman is right. What Facebook provides is a completely unoriginal set of social networking tools wrapped in a mediocre presentation layer that requires you to surrender some of your most precious human rights in order to access it. Their users are their product. They sell you to advertisers and even more unsavory corporations like Zynga that are looking to lure you into a constant dopamine feedback loop to sucker…

> that requires you to surrender some of your most precious human rights in order to access it I'm genuinely curious, which human rights? I created an account, don't really use it... and don't feel like I've had any human rights taken away.

There's a distinction between having something taken and giving it freely. Facebook haters have the cognitive ability to make this distinction, but lack the integrity to do so.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#117

Post by nollidge »

noduerme wrote: post #87
gavinlynch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's something wrong with people liking camp because they're supposed to like camp" Huh? Don't understand what you are talking about... A quick study of human history and psychology will show that this is a bedrock of human behavior. For good and ill, it is what I would regard a well-accepted facet of human nature. We wouldn't be the species we are without the pressures of 'social norms'

Actually, a quick study will show you that it's the (by definition) minority of people who rebel against social norms and mass movements, the people who aren't followers, who have been the drivers of civilization, the catalysts for new ideas, the creators and inventors. I think it's safe to say most of those people hated or would hate summer camp. People who really love camp might be poster children for human herd be…

> But they suck at thinking for themselves.

Maybe they just enjoy the outdoors. Maybe they really get a kick out of building fires and singing songs and making crafts. What on earth does any of that have to do with herd behavior or independent thinking?

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#118

Post by noduerme »

groby_b wrote: post #99
noduerme wrote: post #10

When I was a kid, my parents sent me to camp, even though all I wanted to do was sit home and write text adventures in BASIC. I hated camp. I hated the kids, and the counselors, and most of all I hated how everyone acted like if you didn't like it, if you weren't having fun, then there was something messed up about you . Facebook = camp. The most oppressive and authoritarian thing about it is, at root, that most peop…

Because, clearly, your wants indicate what's important for civilization? Yes, there's a lot wrong with Facebook, but you do realize that you act exactly like those kids in camp - if people don't enjoy what you do, or have the same preferences you do, there's something messed up about them. Maybe most people don't want private space, I don't know. It's certainly a good idea to point out what the privacy implications o…

I think you're being hypersensitive. I never said you were messed up for liking facebook, choosing to live in a fishbowl and not attaching any value to your own privacy. You're putting words in my mouth.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#119

Post by jamesbritt »

pascalr wrote: post #67
IsTom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I've thought for a long time too, until I realized that the person writing http://www.osnews.com/story/25469/Richard_Stallman_Was_Right... has a point.

Wow, excellent link. I never saw it this way. Has it been posted on HN? It should be if not.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3417033

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#120

Post by joedev »

noduerme wrote: post #87
gavinlynch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's something wrong with people liking camp because they're supposed to like camp" Huh? Don't understand what you are talking about... A quick study of human history and psychology will show that this is a bedrock of human behavior. For good and ill, it is what I would regard a well-accepted facet of human nature. We wouldn't be the species we are without the pressures of 'social norms'

Actually, a quick study will show you that it's the (by definition) minority of people who rebel against social norms and mass movements, the people who aren't followers, who have been the drivers of civilization, the catalysts for new ideas, the creators and inventors. I think it's safe to say most of those people hated or would hate summer camp. People who really love camp might be poster children for human herd be…

The belief that contrarianism is required as proof of "thinking for themselves" is a common logical fallacy. It is logical and valid to consider that someone may think for themselves and, after due diligence of doing so, make a decision which happens to coincide with that of many others.
Post reply on HN