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Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

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Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't like being bullshitted. Constant marketing about privacy while they're phoning home a bunch of data when you start and stop the browser. I did at some point find a doc page with a zillion steps to disable all of it but that doesn't remediate the hypocrisy IMHO.

A zillion? Preferences > Privacy > Firefox Data Collection and Use. Uncheck a couple boxes.

That's some of it but not all of it. If you uncheck those and proxy FF when it's starting you'll see the chatter. I have the doc page I'm talking about somewhere but I have no idea where it is. Fully disabling it is a long complex process involving about:config.

* Found this: https://github.com/K3V1991/Disable-Firefox-Telemetry-and-Dat... I haven't compared their list to the one I've used before but it's along the same lines and explains the discrepancy between the config settings and Firefox's actual behavior.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#92
While I'm glad the data is trending in the right direction, isn't this what you'd expect to see from these metrics as people adopt faster hardware and better internet connectivity?

I know it's hard to control for those things while maintaining anonymity and doing aggregate analysis, but this would be a much stronger argument controlling for at least some level of available compute.

(I exclusively use Firefox on all the platforms)

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#93

I trust the Firefox team knows what they're doing and came to the right conclusion re: performance. That said, I have a small nit. I would have liked to see how performance changed relative to the same time last year, to control for seasonal effects. Image 1 is showing changes on the scale of 1/100 of a second. I'm not an expert in the field, but when you'r looking at signal of that magnitude controlling for noise is…

I’m curious what seasonal effects you hypothesize might be in play here. I don’t know enough about the browser performance space to understand what might change: do people really consume a different mix of web technologies through their browsers seasonally?

It looks to my naive eyes like the trajectories here are consistent and that the “signal” looks bigger than the variance. The measurements seen consistent with a bunch of smart engineers working to optimize for them during the time period they were measured.

At the same time you’re right: that big August improvement might well have something to do with Northern-hemisphere people switching to lighter vacation reading rather than just the Firefox 116 release happening to drop August 1. I’d share your interest in the longer timescale.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#94
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it doesn't run JavaScript it immediately loses most attack surface relative to other browsers.

It also doesn’t (nor can it) load images, which is #2

Yeah, right after I hit post it occurred to me that assorted media codecs (pictures, video, audio) were probably the next largest attack surface that lynx would also necessarily be immune to :)

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#95
I can subjectively confirm that Firefox feels snappier recently and deeply appreciate and enjoy all improvements.

But I have some itching concerns about that methodology with heavy anonymisation and stuff there:

Couldn't it be that the web itself got faster, and folks have better hardware?

I mean, yes, generally these sloppy script kiddies with bloated frameworks produce less and less effective code … but I can imagine, that when some heavily visited page deploys a new better optimized and leaner version (I assume such things happen in reality, don't they?), there is no way to tell it apart from telemetry data telling that everything got slightly faster on average. Or with people getting better hardware, or with OS and driver updates, etc.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#97
post #5

Only looking at the 95th percentile is pretty disappointing. Enough page loads happen that higher percentile experiences aren't exactly rare.

You mean only displaying and discussing the 95th percentile in a blog post?

There's no reason to assume that what is brought up in a blog post is going to match what engineers are looking at. In this case, I'm a developer at Mozilla, and I would say that I agree that it's worthwhile to look at the 99th percentile as well. And the median (50th percentile). And other platforms. And segregate it by website, but we don't collect that, or by country, but although I think we might be collecting that we avoid correlating too many things before discarding the non-aggregate data. There are too many German users to worry about identifying one by knowing they're German, but there's aren't that many German users with >100 tabs running on Windows 7 on slower hardware, etc.

I wouldn't want to pile up any more data than necessary in a blog post, though. The point would get buried. Man Bites Dog Whose Litter Mate Once Skipped A Veterinary Visit Because Owner Was Out Of Town At A Wedding Between Two People Whose Names Start With D

(Yes, we do consider many different percentiles when making decisions. We kind of have to come up with arguments for what matters, given a change we made or are contemplating. Some things improve the 50th and regress the 95th, for example, and that's a useful clue. Telemetry tracks half a dozen different percentiles.)

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#98
Sounds wonderful, but they've been claiming speed increases for years, causing me to go and check if they're true, and being deeply disappointed. I don't use powerful laptops with fancy hardware for my browsing, but how stupid can a browser be if it only works well even with heavy use if your hardware is great? Not everyone has that luxury even if they'd like a bit of privacy features.

As much as I detest and avoid all things Google in so many ways, Chrome remains preferable because at least it can deliver 50+ open tabs on a completely ordinary laptop without completely freezing everything to shit.

You've had so many years to get this basic thing right Mozilla, yet you keep failing, and for a company that claims to track less than the others, then what the fuck is your browser doing to keep being so goddam slow?

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like real users aren't hitting loading times in those higher percentiles. They really should be showing p100.

p100 would include those where the uplink is so slow that the page takes minutes to render completely. Those users are useful to see, but the browser is much less of a bottleneck for them, and the data should be broken out into a separate bin.

It would also include users who happened to close their laptop lids and suspend for an hour, right during pageload.
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