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Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

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Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay rent by other means than art. Adapt or be homeless.

If any work is used for AI training, then the author should be paid. I hope that artists will be protected. Abide the law, or meet consequences?

i agree in part with the parent comment, art can be done for hobby or for work, if the work part is being replaced by generators then art will be confined as an hobby and maybe that will be better for everyone. Stop at all the laundry-multimillionary "art" racket.

btw, regarding copyright use, i don't see how AIs are not in the "fair use" category, they take human-generated content and apply a transformation to it, generating new images. The only problem is that generating images is a million-times quicker and cheaper

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is these discussions are being had by STEM/tech people who don't respect or value art or the effort behind it, not by artists. They simply do not get the concerns that artists have. It truly boggles the mind that people equate machines that can output thousands and thousands of images in short time spans in any ingested style... with humans who have to hone styles and can only produce a result every so of…

This is how technology works. Bulldozers effectively replaced people with shovels. Excel effectively replaced accounting clerks. Generative AI effectively replace artists (to some capacity). Most people care only about the output of a system, not about who the system replaces.

yeah, we did not ask for farmers permission before producing Farming machines

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#263

A thought experiment: Imagine you have a blob of seemingly random data. Nothing in the data contains anything recognizable as illegal or in violation of copyright. Now imagine that the right input suddenly turns the data into illegal or infringing material, after a transformation operation. And not just a single unique input such as a password which clearly represents a mapping function between two sets of data. But…

This feels like a bit of a naive interpretation of the situation. At its core — regardless of specific lawsuits, etc — the questions here are (1) should copyright laws be adapted to the new reality of generative AI, (2) should artists be able to control how their work is used given generative AI is a reality, and (3) do we as a society think people should be able to make a living as artists, and what are the implications of that either way when it comes to AI models and their use.

Until this point, an artist who has developed their own personal, recognizable style, could be somewhat confident that it is difficult for someone else to generate a new piece of art exactly mimicking their style. That is to say, it was never impossible — there have certainly always been other artists out there who are capable of taking artwork and creative something new in that style — but there were some barriers to getting there, including that those artists aren’t easily and instantaneously accessible to every human being on the planet, that they generally don’t work for free, and that they would need some time to produce their work. The combination of these factors resulted in a system wherein, for the most part, if you really wanted to create something in the style of a specific artist, you would need to commission them, thereby supporting their ability to live and continue creating art. And/or they sold merchandise with their art, or collections, etc.

Now, on the other hand, it is incredibly easy to go to an image generator and have it generate art in the style of a specific (sufficiently well-established) artist quickly, easily, and freely. The barriers have, overnight, gone from being reasonably protective to pretty much nonexistent. As a result, artists are asking themselves how they can continue to live and create art. This is something a sufficiently well-established professional artist used to be able to do before generative AI came into the picture, because other than the odd copycat (which again took time and effort and an actual human with the right ability), they were the only ones who could produce images in their own styles, and this ability was thus a valuable resource that people paid for. If anyone can now produce identical images independently and for free, then this ability may no longer be a resource other people will pay for.

Part of what these court cases are trying to determine is exactly whether any copyright does apply to generated images. You wrote that “publishing, that is a different story, and we already have laws offering such protections both with respect to illegally-produced or copyrighted content”, but those laws are exactly what’s being tested here: artists (and organizations like Getty) are seeing what they claim are AI-generated copies of their copyrighted works in use out in the world (so these have been “published” by some definition — they are not only being printed out and hung in people’s garages for them and their friends to look at in private), and are suing to stop that.

But aside from that, I think there is a real philosophical discussion here. If you’ve trained as an artist your entire life, have worked hard to develop a unique style, and are one of the relatively few artists who have been successful doing so — should a company be able to wait until you became popular, then just take all of your work, and use it to train a model that can produce works exactly in your style easily and without any effort, which it can then provide to people freely or for a subscription?

This also isn’t as much about the output, as about how the output was obtained. If the model did not actually ingest your images, but someone wrote a prompt that involved a super-detailed description of what made your style unique, going into color palettes, line thicknesses, art styles, influences, etc etc, and you would have to get all of that right in order to generate something that looked like your art, then I think most folks would be generally ok with that. But when (1) your prompt can just be “give me art that looks like soulofmischief made it” and it’ll give you just that, and (2) you know that your art was used to train the model in order for it to be able to do that, then there is a question of whether fair use laws should be adjusted to prohibit this behavior and protect your ability to live off of your work.

I also think that regardless of the outcome of these lawsuits, no one is really coming for your own models and hour ability to tinker in your garage. It may not be legal today to duplicate a copyrighted image and hang it in your office, but no one will ever know (or care enough to do nothing about it) if you do. Similarly, even if this use becomes copyrighted, nothing will practically stop you from building your own large model that includes any copyrighted images you want, for your own personal use, in your own garage. But if you then turn around and try to profit off of that model, or if you want someone else to produce a model (thus stepping more into the publishing realm) that’s where a line may be drawn. I personally think that’d be fair.

Finally, zooming all the way out, I believe that it should be possible to make a living as an artist, and I think when we have discussions like these, we should keep reminding ourselves to think about how our technical or legal arguments affect that outcome.

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "taking data" going on. Nobody is going into your private locker and training on your painting, music or cooking recipes. If you put your "work" out in the world, anyone who views it, is automatically training their brains on it. Viewing is training.

AIs and humans are not the same, why do people keep grouping them together and assume the same logic should apply?

No two people are exactly the same, but we group them together in various ways. The question to ask is "for a particular purpose, should they be treated with the same reasoning?".

For the purpose of creating new art from experiencing previously created art, why should we treat them differently?

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#265

Can somebody explain how this will not kill any incentive to publish anything? Why would any human spend their limited lifespan to create a piece of work that will be grabbed without permission, approximated algorithmically (at least on the surface) and reused in infinite possible small variations without any attribution or remuneration whatsoever? This feels like a reversion to medieval times with minimal trade betw…

It may very well kill the incentives. But if new laws are needed, that is a matter for congress, not the courts.

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope people get to read your comment to understand indeed what kind of world you are advocating.

The kind of world he is advocating is just the real world as it is. You have to be extremely naive or privileged to think otherwise

I actually had a discussion regarding this topic with a peer of mine that at the time was doing art-studies . She was extremely angry and devastated that in her field weren't enough jobs available for every one that mayored in it. That was a real complaint, for her the state should step in and guarantee a well-paid job for everybody in the exact field that everyone chooses, Like "I want to be a painter" and the day after they give you a place to work on your paintings

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#267
post #143
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just not that different from people seeing works and learning or being inspired, so how do you "ban AI" without adding more crazy DRM/DMCA stuff for legitimate use?

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Source that they are not?

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just to be sure: the list of URLs + metadata that gets used for stable diffusion is several terabytes. Not the images. Just the list of URLs alone (and a bit of other metadata). Stable diffusion itself is just 6+ GB, and fits comfortably on my USB stick. That's one heck of a lossy compression algorithm, sir! (this thread has more discussion on this line of thinking https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879938 )

> So just to be sure: the list of URLs + metadata that gets used for stable diffusion is several terabytes. Not the images. Just the list of URLs alone (and a bit of other metadata). > Stable diffusion itself is just 6+ GB, and fits comfortably on my USB stick. Thanks for sharing this info which I'm aware of. However, this fact is not as significant as it might sound in terms of whether it's a lossy compression algor…

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Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's on twitter doesn't mean it's true. I think a court setting where things are contemplated in a rigorous and reasoned way has a somewhat better chance of arriving at something resembling the truth. We've been here before several times: Silhouette painting, Photography, Airbrushing, Pianos, Synthesizers, Sampling, Photoshop, Ray Tracing, and many more. "It's not real art", "they're stealing from us", "…

[flagged]

I guess enjoy rejecting modern life. We're going to see an explosion of new works from people using these new tools in creative ways. I'm sure you'll say that you don't want anything to do with AI-generated art, but that will soon mean avoiding just about every new work.

Re: Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

#270

Having done way more corporate court than I want (patents, mergers, liquidation), I’m increasingly convinced that the judicial system is fundamentally flawed. The reality is that the law in 2023 US is so obscure and opaque and how judges come to their ruling seems to be by their total whim with no actual philosophy other than maintenance of the system. Further I’m extremely unimpressed with the vast majority of judge…

The final decision made by this article is one I agree with with or without money and I have no incentive the game. Every piece of creation you and I make us the sum total of our experiences and that includes copy written work. Holding an LLM guilty for that is like holding the human brain guilty for memorizing copyrighted work.

It's ok to give humans rights that we don't give to machines.
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