Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education • Hacker News Board

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#41

Post by monero-xmr » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

I would much prefer “backpack funding” aka vouchers. The blue-state city I live in spends almost $25k per student per year and apart from a few magnet schools they are atrociously bad. Like the high school my kids would have to attend if I wasn’t wealthy had a student murdered outside of it a few years ago.

If you gave parents even 1/3 of that money the state would save a fortune and parents would be so much better off. The monopoly system of education we have is just so awful. I’m fine with having bonus benefits for special needs kids, and public schools should always exist to educate the high-needs students. But the system we have now is so laughably bad and segregated that anyone who defends it must have a financial stake in keeping it running.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#42

Post by Turing_Machine » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #30

zaphar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think possibly the worst place to learn and practice social skills is from other kids who are just as in the dark as you are. In my experience a home schooled child is significantly more likely to be good at social skills than a public schooled child. They are also adept at navigating adult conversation and social situations much sooner.

My experience is exactly the opposite. Homeschooled kids frequently have to learn how to adult all at once, right as they get dumped into the pool with everyone else to go find a way to make a living. The most successful kids that I see are the ones who have professional instructors by day and excellent support at home. Not one or the other, but both.

> Homeschooled kids frequently have to learn how to adult all at once

How does sitting in a room with a bunch of kids, all of whom are within one year of you in age, with an authority figure at the front telling you exactly what to do, teach you "how to adult"?

It might prepare you for Army boot camp, which is the only "adult" place you're likely to encounter that kind of environment. Even prison usually has a range of age groups.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#43

Post by keiferski » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

jwestbury wrote: post #20

keiferski wrote: post #8

This is a fundamental change of life, and it’s astonishing that it’s so persistent. It is pretty misleading for this article to talk about homeschooling being a “fundamental change” without mentioning that homeschooling was the default practice for most of human history. If anything, this is just a return to a long-established practice, not a fringe movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling

There are many behaviours which were common throughout human history which would now be fringe movements. Human and/or animal sacrifices, for instance.

If animal sacrifice became common again, I would expect articles to mention the fact that it was a human practice for millennia – and not pretend it's just a fringe thing those pesky Other People invented.

Homeschooling was also the default thing a ±century ago, while you'd need to go back pretty far to find true animal/human sacrifice in European/European-American culture.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#44

Post by tivert » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #34

Loughla wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The college I most recently consulted with had to take a homeschool "transcript" that can literally be a signed paper from the parent handwritten with nothing to back it up. It's astounding. I don't know if that's just because that particular state doesn't have very strict rules around homeschooling, or if that's standard; I just haven't done the research.

How else do you think a transcript should work? What makes you think a random private school transcript has anything else backing it up? Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning.

> How else do you think a transcript should work? What makes you think a random private school transcript has anything else backing it up?

Are you saying things written on a fancy letterhead with a stamp can't be unquestionably trusted?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#45

Post by keiferski » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

brodouevencode wrote: post #22

keiferski wrote: post #8

This is a fundamental change of life, and it’s astonishing that it’s so persistent. It is pretty misleading for this article to talk about homeschooling being a “fundamental change” without mentioning that homeschooling was the default practice for most of human history. If anything, this is just a return to a long-established practice, not a fringe movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling

It's a fundamental change versus the Prussian model, which provided a basis for much of the educational theory in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system

It's funny how so much of social conflict today basically boils down to: industrial systems put in place in the 19th century aren't working anymore.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#46

Post by throwaway1777 » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #36

The problem with home schooling is that it is a solution for the rich and leaves all of the poor kids behind.

Yes it is. People forget this because they live in a bubble. It’s like remote work, nice for the laptop class, but not possible for the person growing your food and manufacturing your tesla.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#47

Post by edgyquant » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

jwestbury wrote: post #20

keiferski wrote: post #8

This is a fundamental change of life, and it’s astonishing that it’s so persistent. It is pretty misleading for this article to talk about homeschooling being a “fundamental change” without mentioning that homeschooling was the default practice for most of human history. If anything, this is just a return to a long-established practice, not a fringe movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling

There are many behaviours which were common throughout human history which would now be fringe movements. Human and/or animal sacrifices, for instance.

What a weird example. Sacrifices have not been common in the west for thousands of years and the majority in the Middle East for over half that time as well. Seems like a bad faith gotcha

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#48

Post by Turing_Machine » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

303uru wrote: post #13

boeingUH60 wrote: post #5

Good luck to these people, hope it turns out well. Personally, I can't imagine home-schooling kids. I neither have the time nor patience to do that, which is why I appreciate teachers. Besides, I believe school is also a place for kids to socialize with and learn from their peers. I'm very introverted, but I think I would have ended up horribly social-wise if I was home-schooled.

Ya, this doesn't end well. The data isn't amazing for homeschooling, but what I've seen shows a strong bimodal distribution. Extremely wealthy home schoolers with tons of resources have kids that perform well in college and have strong lifetime earnings. Everyone else not so much, unprepared for college, earnings well below their peers. Pair this with the fairly predatory organizations offering "learning materials" a…

> Extremely wealthy home schoolers with tons of resources have kids that perform well in college and have strong lifetime earnings. Everyone else not so much, unprepared for college, earnings well below their peers.

So... exactly the same as public schools, then?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#49

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

303uru wrote: post #17

brightball wrote: post #7

When I moved into my current house about 10 years ago, the family next door home schooled. I'd never known any home schoolers before and definitely had some notions about how terrible it must be until I learned about it. This family was part of a home school group with other families. The kids went to different houses every day and had an instructor focus on 1 subject for half of the day, mixed in with free time, dep…

Sure, that's one model. The underlying problem is the completely unregulated nature. Similarly, there is household in my neighborhood that home schools. The kids (all 8 of them) never leave the house. They have a 8ft. fence and 1 acre yard where I assume they get some outside time. No one visits. Only dad is allowed to talk to anyone and when he does it's extraordinarily weird.

Public schools are highly regulated, and are on average horrible.

I'd bet a lot on parents caring more about their kids welfare than regulators.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#50

Post by zaphar » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #18

zaphar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think possibly the worst place to learn and practice social skills is from other kids who are just as in the dark as you are. In my experience a home schooled child is significantly more likely to be good at social skills than a public schooled child. They are also adept at navigating adult conversation and social situations much sooner.

My experience is the absolute opposite of yours. In all seriousness, there is a trend of homeschooled kids coming to the local large high school for the extracurriculars, and the school offering Autism testing, because they are so far behind socially. I find it interesting that your experience is the opposite. Where in the world do you live?

I've lived all over the country. I was homeschooled as well and have a number of friends who were.

Anecdotal evidence is going to vary certainly and effect is highly dependent on the parent. But I've been around homeschooling groups for over 30 years now and the balance of them have been significantly ahead of the public schooled.