Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#271

Post by razakel » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 2:52 PM UTC

_cenw wrote: post #36

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #17

That was not convincing. The article only touches two unorthodox beliefs: that we should defund the police (really a preference, not a belief) and that success is largely attributable to luck. But the elites are more likely to believe conventional wisdom on climate change, on whether vaccines work, on whether the Holocaust happened, on whether digesting genetically modified organisms changes the consumer's DNA, any n…

> Wanting to defund the police is likely correlated with not needing the police -- but that's likely simple ignorance, not signaling. Or with police being a net-negative to your life. Like living in a disproportionately policed area. Or having a disproportionately policed skin color. The poll is pretty clear, defund the police doesn't mean anarchy, it means replacing it. The how's a bit up in the air, but it's more a…

The police are there for when limited violence needs to be meted out to prevent greater harm. They are not counsellors, social workers, or doctors. More funding needs to go to those professionals instead of giving the police military-grade weapons.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#272

Post by elmomle » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

junofan wrote: post #267

indigo945 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the examples correlate with affluence, which is a necessary condition for them to be included in this article; but it is obviously not a sufficient condition, as all "luxury beliefs" from elsewhere on the political spectrum are excluded. My point is that this is a bad faith argument. The author pretends to care about "luxury" beliefs, but in truth, all he cares about is finding a cheap shot against feminist posi…

I dunno, I read it apolitically. Normal working-class people don’t give a shit about any of this stuff, and as soon as they do, it’ll become unfashionable, and we’ll move on to the next thing.

I think once the idea of heteronormativity had percolated through all of society as a well understood concept, it would no longer be as pressing a concern. These concepts tend to be in vogue specifically because they are salient.

It is intellectually dangerous to read a piece like this "apolitically", precisely because a biased political agenda is wearing the garb of a much more universal observation. If the writer had mixed "luxury beliefs" from all over the political spectrum, then there would be a clear focus on what the title purports to concern. Instead, there is a second agenda that is being silently conflated without being acknowledged.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#273

Post by steveBK123 » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #95

"Class", by Paul Fussell, is a fun read. It's from 1981 and reads like a period piece today, but it's still a good read. Somehow, "Black Lives Matter" morphed into "Defund the Police", which turned into a joke. It derailed any serious effort to fix the real problem of cops shooting too many black people. Not quite sure how that happened. The hard work thing seems to be the reverse of the criticism usually leveled in…

The amount that movements get adopted by, amplified by, and sometimes co-opted by people who have no idea what they are talking about is substantial. Thats before you even get into the grifters (Shaun King).

Just to bring in another contentious topic, but this simple interview personifies what I saw in summer 2020. https://x.com/israel_advocacy/status/1718742999591456921 Whatever your view on the relative merits, you have 2 protestors talking about how 1) they don't really support the chant 2) of course they chanted it 3) no we don't actually know the context of half the words in the chant

I'm not from the UK but I generally interpret the specifics of those accents to be a bit more upper class than lower for sure. Not to mention the phrasing, words used, and general indirection of the response.

One of my neighbors was like this during summer 2020. In retrospect she admitted she was just bored of being locked up during covid, and ended up to the right of me on policing lol.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#274

Post by erkt » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

notaustinpowers wrote: post #248

JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

Some of the comments I see kinda get to the point, but not all the way. I've grown up in a fairly liberal part of the southern US, with a high African American population so these are the kind of conversations I encounter fairly often. Cultural appropriation is widely understood to be when someone in a position of power (most commonly a white person) utilizes something that is heavily related or socially seen as "par…

Seems like a fancy way to argue that it’s ethical to discriminate against white people because there is a historical debt to settle.

Laying claim to culture is dumb, but everyone wants to feel special. One’s culture is less at risk from appropriation than from extinction as the world continues to trend towards an internet transmitted monoculture.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#275

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

jlos wrote: post #258

neilk wrote: post #106

Let’s consider the contrary. Do poor people sometimes hold highly questionable beliefs, promulgated by institutions, and does professing these beliefs in expensive and flamboyant ways confer status? Religion ticks all these boxes. In some contexts, so does patriotism, racism, worship of the military, publicly dumping cases of Bud Light, etc etc etc. In some ways, even disdain for education is a sort of expensive stat…

> Religion ticks all these boxes Regular participation in religious services is of the most beneficial activities a person can do for their mental health. I'm not saying this as a platitude, but as a well documented observed phenomenom [0][1]. To the point, I regularly see studies on benefits to those who regularly attend religious services and have never seen a study showing any adverse affects from it. That is not…

[deleted]

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#276

Post by junofan » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:07 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #222

JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

The term "cultural appropriation" has been widely misused and diluted by people who don't really understand it. If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation. It refers to a dominant culture taking the trappings of a colonized or otherwise marginalized culture and using them for entertainme…

Most ryokan did not want foreigners. The government had to crack down as part of their big tourism campaign.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#277

Post by vannevar » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

Other examples of "luxury beliefs" not mentioned by the author include the idea that all the poor need to do is work harder, and the idea that unregulated capitalism provides the best outcome for all.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#278

Post by pipes » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:10 PM UTC

JanSt wrote: post #132

indigo945 wrote: post #101

> When I was growing up in foster homes, or making minimum wage as a > dishwasher, or serving in the military, I never heard words like “cultural > appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative.” > > Working class people could not tell you what these terms mean. But if you > visit an elite university, you’ll find plenty of affluent people who will > eagerly explain them to you. I figured out as soon as I saw the l…

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

It's not. It's completely insane. No cross pollination of ideas allowed, as that is appropriation too.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#279

Post by yoyohello13 » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:10 PM UTC

snoochyboochies wrote: post #262

This is an interesting social phenomenon. Given HN's user base, if the author is correct, his hypothesis would predict that the users of HackerNews are disproportionately likely to hold these luxury beliefs.

Given the number of borderline Sociopathic comments I've seen on here about population growth and worker exploitation I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#280

Post by tekla » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 3:10 PM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #245

Neil44 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich is a subjective term but your definition of it is strangely unusual and specific.

most likely because they resemble the more general understanding of the word rich.

Maybe on Hacker News, but not in the real world.