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Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

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Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#161

Post by JanSt »

traverseda wrote: post #151
JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

The strongest form of that argument I know about is really about how capitalism is eating the world. It's a common refrain that "white people have no culture", but if you replace "white people" with "globalized capitalism" it starts making more sense. Everyone drinks the same can of coke and eats the same grocery store sushi. If you look closer at the woke crowd you'll see that grocery store sushi is pretty "white".…

That's a really weak argument.

1) It has nothing to do with racism but uses the accusation of someone being racist as a tool to push an agenda.

2) Japan still makes good sushi. Supermarket sushi has not destroyed japanese sushi culture

3) I'd argue that capitalism has made the world better in pretty much every aspect. You could argue that capitalism has destroyed the environment, but the fact is that leftist countries have a history of being even more destructive.

4) "white people have no culture" But people all over the world drink coke, watch american movies, drink french wine, eat italian food, drive german cars and they seem to like their smartphones.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#162

Post by lmm »

neilk wrote: post #106

Let’s consider the contrary. Do poor people sometimes hold highly questionable beliefs, promulgated by institutions, and does professing these beliefs in expensive and flamboyant ways confer status? Religion ticks all these boxes. In some contexts, so does patriotism, racism, worship of the military, publicly dumping cases of Bud Light, etc etc etc. In some ways, even disdain for education is a sort of expensive stat…

> The author is just describing what people of all kinds do. Yes, there are very silly beliefs which sometimes seduce educated elites. But that just makes them like everybody else.

The idea that some of these beliefs are popular specifically because you have to be rich to afford them was a new insight to me when I first heard it. Maybe I should've come up with it myself from first principles, but I didn't.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#163

Post by Ekaros »

jyounker wrote: post #142

The poster's entire article is based on a strawman. The "Defund The Police" movement has very specific and very well documented goals: Use police only for law-enforcement, and use specialized responders for non-law enforcement interactions. For example, you send mental health specialists when someone is threatening suicide. This reallocates funding from the police to more capable responders, but allows the remaining…

Big question is does police currently have enough funding for those main tasks? If not defunding them by taking money from them only makes situation even worse.

Or do you actually need more funding to spend on the other stuff? Which could in best case over some years decrease overall costs for society.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#164

Post by trabant00 »

leereeves wrote: post #27
chancemehmu wrote: post #6

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes by Huxley: "If you’re to do anything reasonable in this world, you must have a class of people who are secure, safe from public opinion, safe from poverty, leisured, not compelled to waste their time in the imbecile routines that go by the name of Honest Work. You must have a class of which the members can think and, within the obvious limits, do what they please. You must hav…

It sounds like you're talking about an aristocracy, and the quote even uses that word, so I wonder: do you think the aristocracy is responsible for most of the progress in the world? I'd argue rather that, historically, progress has generally involved removing or disempowering the aristocracy.

Weird, my view of history is that most progress in philosophy, arts, science, engineering, etc has come from aristocracy members who had the means to pursue something other than working for their next meal. That the aristocracy also spent their time exploiting the poor masses doesn't change that.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#165

Post by littlestymaar »

fieldcny wrote: post #154
littlestymaar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's also really funny because the data that the author uses about police reform also show the conservative luxury beliefs that is “police department don't need to be reformed”. (And the same data also shows that for every income class, the police is largely seen as dysfunctional needing either serious reform or complete defunding). This post is basically conservative rambling disguised as sociology.

I am in no way conservative, but I think you are missing the point. There are sets of liberal and conservative beliefs that are held by the wealthy and powerful that are detrimental to the powerless and poor. He cites the liberal set, maybe he is a conservative and that’s his bias or maybe because there is an inbuilt hypocrisy in some of them, ultimately it doesn’t matter because the point stands on its own and one s…

I think you are the one missing the point: it's not that this post has a conservative bias (every text necessarily has these kinds of bias, and that's fine). The problem with this post is that it is only here as an argument against liberal ideas that he doesn't like, and as such it's entirely driven by bad faith.

Then sure there may be some elements of truth sprinkled every now and then, but every piece of propaganda always lies on some truth to be convincing, that doesn't make it legit.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#166

Post by denton-scratch »

j7ake wrote: post #96

The fraction of people with luxury beliefs that also have to request vacation days to a manager is too high to be an exclusive upper class signal. Private jets, yachts, personal cooks and butlers are truer symbols of the upper class.

> Private jets, yachts, personal cooks and butlers are truer symbols of the upper class.

Those are all signs of wealth; most classy people would actively avoid them, even if they're wealthy.

I'm from the UK; I suspect that in the USA, it's easier to raise your social class by simply spending money. Here, social class by default is inherited. It's reinforced by where you went to school. Most people of high social class are slightly embarrassed about it; showing it off is seen as tacky.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#168

Post by romusha »

indigo945 wrote: post #101

> When I was growing up in foster homes, or making minimum wage as a > dishwasher, or serving in the military, I never heard words like “cultural > appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative.” > > Working class people could not tell you what these terms mean. But if you > visit an elite university, you’ll find plenty of affluent people who will > eagerly explain them to you. I figured out as soon as I saw the l…

On the other hand, peasants in Russia believe in big government and there's no luxury there for them

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#169

Post by traverseda »

JanSt wrote: post #161
traverseda wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strongest form of that argument I know about is really about how capitalism is eating the world. It's a common refrain that "white people have no culture", but if you replace "white people" with "globalized capitalism" it starts making more sense. Everyone drinks the same can of coke and eats the same grocery store sushi. If you look closer at the woke crowd you'll see that grocery store sushi is pretty "white".…

That's a really weak argument. 1) It has nothing to do with racism but uses the accusation of someone being racist as a tool to push an agenda. 2) Japan still makes good sushi. Supermarket sushi has not destroyed japanese sushi culture 3) I'd argue that capitalism has made the world better in pretty much every aspect. You could argue that capitalism has destroyed the environment, but the fact is that leftist countrie…

Yeah, but it's the strongest form of that argument I'm aware of.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#170

Post by zigman1 »

subjectsigma wrote: post #150
zigman1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted, stupid and reactionary This is incredibly ignorant view which does not understand the trauma someone can endure when not being allowed or experience not only discrimination, but physical abuse and threats for being who he or she feels is. I wonder if people said the same thing when screaming for equal rights or other things related to racism and ho…

https://youtu.be/lsw3pdpxf64?si=Nm9jNS9jeqR9eQA4

What are you trying to say? I can also cherry-pick one of numerous alt right people storming cities with guns and assault rifles, calling for violence.
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