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Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

people.ischool.berkeley.edu

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Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#92
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universe led up to this moment where you fool yourself into thinking you have free will just cause you sat still for a bit. Doesn't mean much. Think about it, if the universe is all predetermined, how peaceful your mental state is or isn't has no impact on it. We all either have free will or not, but breathing deep isn't gonna trigger it.

Free will is any random process with an asymptotically infinite number of degrees of freedom, by definition. Are humans such a process? Who knows, but attempts to model individual humans have certainly failed before. (We need lots of humans in aggregate to successfully model them, once the central limit theorem starts working.)

I challenge you to get any more than a single digit percent of any representative sample of people to agree a random process is free will by definition. It's one of exceedingly few definitions I've heard in decades of discussing the subject that I'll agree doesn't immediately make free will impossible, but at the same time it's one that too me at least exemplifies something that is neither free nor will.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#95

I fail to see how it's related to free will. I can look at the digits of PI and press d and f depending it's odd or even. So what does it prove? Nothing. Being able to beat this algorithm doesn't mean that I have free will, and choose to fall into patterns (knowing the PI solution exists) doesn't mean I don't.

If your behaviour can be predicted then you don't have free will.

Obviously you can argue whether this really predicts human behaviour or even the above implication itself (for example I think compatibilism kinda disagrees with it) but I'd say it is related.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#97
post #78

This doesn't work on mobile. Free will and self-determination are not the same thing. Free will means the consequences and outcomes you face can be tracked back to decisions you made. Everything can be pre-destined at a level that transcends time and space as we understand it, and you can still have free will. Imagine starting a program you wrote, you know exactly what it will do given you already know the exact para…

Your definition of free will is a compatibilist one, and a lot of people reacts strongly negatively to compatibilist definitions when you turn explain that in a deterministic universe they are compatible with you not actually being able to make a different choice if we "rewound time".

To me, a compatibilist "free will" is not free - it's an illusion. Being aware the "free" part of compatibilist free will is an illusion is important, because it has major moral implications.

E.g. if people could not have acted differently than they have, then ascribing responsibility to people for their actions can reasonably be considered immoral.

Your last paragraph is assuming there is agency to start with, something which is not a given, and so the argument is not logically valid as stated.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#99
what would be the statistically optimal model for this problem? the author is using a simply 5-gram prediction model. makes me wonder if some kind of hidden markov model would be optimal for this problem but not sure how exactly.

thoughts from anyone proficient in statistics?

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#100
post #95

I fail to see how it's related to free will. I can look at the digits of PI and press d and f depending it's odd or even. So what does it prove? Nothing. Being able to beat this algorithm doesn't mean that I have free will, and choose to fall into patterns (knowing the PI solution exists) doesn't mean I don't.

If your behaviour can be predicted then you don't have free will. Obviously you can argue whether this really predicts human behaviour or even the above implication itself (for example I think compatibilism kinda disagrees with it) but I'd say it is related.

Is it true?

From my point of view, that someone can predict what I will do from past behavior does not imply I don't have a free will.

Only way that would prove I don't have a free will is someone who would predict my behavior without knowing anything about my past, like a fortune teller that would tell my friend (because if fortune teller tells it to me it might be self fulfilling prophecy :D) something I would do; without having any interaction with me.

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