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Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

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Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#351

Post by sleepyhead »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #213
sleepyhead wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why GDPR exists. What you are describing is illegal in the EU. Sending marketing communication requires clear opt in consent.

I don't know the legality of this in the EU but often it is required that you opt-in to these marketing emails to create an account or do other basic things on a website. And then there's those online stores that cover the entire page in a popup that you can get a 20% discount code if you give your email. Technically I've opted into their marketing. But I always just use the coupon and then report the email as spam w…

If you need to opt-in to create an account then it is illegal. Yes the discount code for newsletter signup is a result of GDPR consent requirement along with growth hacking technique popularity that is incredibly annoying.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#352

Post by sleepyhead »

lopis wrote: post #281
sleepyhead wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why GDPR exists. What you are describing is illegal in the EU. Sending marketing communication requires clear opt in consent.

Even European Websites do this. I know that in principle I never check the "I want to receive spam" but I still do and still have to unsubscribe later.

Report them to your local DPA. I do not see this so often with big companies but every growth hacking startup send newsletters without consent.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#353

Post by sleepyhead »

jupp0r wrote: post #199
sleepyhead wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why GDPR exists. What you are describing is illegal in the EU. Sending marketing communication requires clear opt in consent.

Are you sure? I don't have more than anecdotal data, but I remember unsubscribing from EU newsletters to be much more cumbersome than from US ones.

What do you mean, how is there a difference between unsubscribing a newsletter from a EU company than a US company?

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#354

Post by denton-scratch »

carstenhag wrote: post #334
Phelinofist wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why confirm via mail at all?

This is a requirement in some jurisdictions (double opt in) for some cases. Not sure about "User has a confirmed email + account at our service, he wants to sign up for a reminder" use case though.

"Double opt-in"is a spammer term for what normal folk refer to as "confirmed opt-in".

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#355

Post by account42 »

kijin wrote: post #273
robocat wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are mostly wrong. OP is complaining they sometimes have to enter their email address - that is absolutely unnecessary make-work. The page can prompt the email address, and have a simple unsubscribe button. Not perfect, but okay. Even better, one-click unsubscribe features (e.g. Gmail's App) are presumably set up to work for the current recipient (not the original sender) so the problem is resolved for any…

Not everyone uses Gmail or a modern email client that understands the one-click List-Unsubscribe protocol, so senders must include an HTML unsubscribe link in the body of the email in order to comply with relevant rules in all jurisdictions. That link, unfortunately, can fall prey to the shenanigans I mentioned above. I understand the parent's sentiment because we all want to unsubscribe from unwanted emails. But tec…

> The latter need not be one-click, and in fact, if it's anything remotely important, should not be.

It absolutely should be one-click.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#356

Post by OJFord »

vntok wrote: post #340
OJFord wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't need or want: - confirmation of my order - my order has been despatched - my order is out for delivery - my order has been delivered to locker - reminder to collect from locker - my order has been collected from locker - feedback on customer support chat experience - my return label has been generated - reminder to return my item - my refund is processing That's Amazon, in case it's not obvious. I don…

You are evidently in a tiny tiny minority of people with very special needs. The vast majority of users want to get these notifications, and most want to have them sent by email because it is one of the most uniquitous channels along with SMS and allows the recipient to "keep living and check the message later on when the time is right" (contrary to a regular in-app notification). The vast majority of Amazon customer…

> And those who do have the app can disable Amazon emails

No you can't, that is the point that is being discussed.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#357

Post by tzs »

geek_at wrote: post #302
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

Just a perspective from the other side of the coin: I host various services for schools like online registration for parent - teacher conferences. When the platform is live hundreds of parents are logging in, choosing their appointments and have to confirm them via email (only one email per person not per appointment) And Yahoo is the Single worst email service to send to. I have correctly configured sfp, dmarc, dkim…

I have no idea if this still works, and it probably wouldn't work for a school, but 15-20 years ago the way to get Yahoo to stop blocking your emails was to call up your ad rep and say something like "Why the heck should we keep spending $10000/month buying ads on Yahoo when any new customers we get from those ads that use Yahoo email end up pissed off at us and maybe even charge back because it looks like we are completely ignoring them because they don't see our emails????".

That would get you added to a "never block mail from this domain" whitelist that had higher precedence than everything else.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#358

Post by franga2000 »

georgyo wrote: post #229
drdaeman wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I very aggressively unsubscribe from everything Never unsubscribe from anything you haven't subscribed for (or at least where you haven't gave your email address to the sending party), because I believe any interaction with unsolicited emails provide spammers with a clear signal that their spam is not just delivered but also read and interacted with, so they get more agressive.

I've heard this advice before, but in my experience you can tell the difference between something malicious or not. But more importantly even if I provide some signal that my email is active it's not going to change that much. They can send more, but that just helps train filters. Lastly default Gmail settings loads remote images. Just opening the email is enough to create some signal. Having remote images turned off…

AFAIK Gmail downloads and caches all images server-side the moment it receives the email, then replaces them with cached versions when viewing. The only thing this tells you is that the address exists, not that anyone opened your email, which you already know since the email wasn't rejected.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#359

Post by account42 »

Synchro wrote: post #344

None of that seems new. What would be new is if both gmail and Yahoo provided any means of allowing legit bulk senders to actually send properly. The one-click unsubscribe is from 2017's RFC8058. Everyone that's sending in volume is already doing all the usual stuff - DKIM, SPF, DMARC, matching reverse IPs, etc. The privacy-first email marketing service I wrote ( https://info.smartmessages.net ) implements account-wi…

> legit bulk senders

Now who could you mean by those.

> The privacy-first email marketing service I wrote

Oh right, spammers.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#360

Post by IMTDb »

tzs wrote: post #357
geek_at wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a perspective from the other side of the coin: I host various services for schools like online registration for parent - teacher conferences. When the platform is live hundreds of parents are logging in, choosing their appointments and have to confirm them via email (only one email per person not per appointment) And Yahoo is the Single worst email service to send to. I have correctly configured sfp, dmarc, dkim…

I have no idea if this still works, and it probably wouldn't work for a school, but 15-20 years ago the way to get Yahoo to stop blocking your emails was to call up your ad rep and say something like "Why the heck should we keep spending $10000/month buying ads on Yahoo when any new customers we get from those ads that use Yahoo email end up pissed off at us and maybe even charge back because it looks like we are com…

Aka: extortion
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