Live data from Hacker News

Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

blog.google

151–160 of 420 posts

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#152

Doesn't matter to me, if an email doesn't have a one click unsubscribe I just mark it as spam. Messes with their email reputation so they hopefully get kicked off of reputable email services.

Unfortunately for us, the Privacy team at our org has determined that a one-click unsubscribe link in the body of the email is unacceptable (passing an identifier into the URL of the link). So we accept either the client unsubscribe link, or users who click the unsubscribe link in the email have to provide their email address on the unsubscribe page.

What was the legal reasoning behind this?

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong address is one reason. For example, I receive transactional emails from a US-based ISP for someone else and the only way to unsubscribe is calling their customer service line. I’m not even in the same country.

I get a number of these for some reason. If they don't let me unsubscribe, I just report it as spam. It's not perfect, but it's what little I can do.

I still have a quite short firstname@gmail.com address, and those emails were unbearable about 10 years ago. Several times, the only alternative was resetting the the password and taking over "someone else's" account to then change the email to a disposable provider like Mailinator.

Hostile? A bit, but after contacting services and complaining, nothing would get done anyway.

I ended up changing email providers because of that.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, seriously -- I get monthly+ e-mails from a gym and a car dealership and some golf course because somebody else put in my e-mail. I contacted the customer support for all of them and they said they can't do anything about it. To change the customer's e-mail address, I need to prove I'm the customer, and obviously I have no idea who they are. So I gave up and implemented a Gmail filter in the end, but I defini…

I have that friend that whenever I don't feel like putting my own email or phone number I just put his. You probably have that friend too, the other way around

Why don't people like you just spend exactly 2 minutes to create a bogus gmail (or etc) account for yourself that you put down when you don't want to put your own email in? I just cannot fathom any reason for you doing this that isn't just malice. Surely nobody is just so _lazy_ that they intend to screw over their friends over a minute or two process making an account.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#155
> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under

I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they couldn't get me to install their app - just to get me to engage with their site.)

Once such behavior has the potential of landing your entire domain in the spam folder, maybe they'll be more careful.

Edit: For example, I can't imagine LinkedIn being able to pull of their "phish people, steal their address book, spam each contact three times with no opt-out" bullshit for so long if strict spam thresholds were in place.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#156

Most of the spam I get in gmail apparently comes from other gmail accounts. Presumably google already filtered out senders pretending to be gmail, so I am not sure what a big improvement this will be for the average user.

Yeah, most outgoing sales people these days reach out using gmail. No unsubscribe links in any of them.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't care about their reputation, I just mark anything I don't want as spam. It's easier than finding the tiny 8-point link at the bottom and rolling the dice on whether their unsubscribe is one click or not. I don't feel obligated to protect their shitty business model.

I once went to an Atlassian conf and they resold all our emails to dodgy people. Or perhaps leaked them over the black markets. Not only I keep receiving almost the same email suggesting to buy 5,000 email addresses of Atlassian customers with always the same fields, but it’s always from different domains. I didn’t think of submitting an Atlassian ticket for each spam I receive. That would teach them. NEVER give your…

Same with Blackhat. You can provide a different e-mail on your profile... and then they'll still happily pass both that and your original sign-up address to any vendor you interacted with, and it will be resold so you end up with spam from vendors that weren't even there.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#158
post #11

> To help ensure messages you send to Gmail accounts are delivered as expected, you should set up either SPF or DKIM for your domain. But spammers already do that, why would enforcing that even help ?

I think the explanation is a little incomplete, but it makes sense if you expand the explanation a bit.

What really happens is this: when GMail receives a lot of email from domain xyzzy.com, and a lot of it seems to spam (either it's marked spam explicitly by the recipient, or maybe Google uses some weird AI or whatever to identify messages as spam) then GMail will start marking email from that domain as spam. Obviously if you own xyzzy.com and you're not a spammer you want to avoid this. So what can you do?

SPF and DKIM are ways to prevent unauthorized senders from delivering mail that appears to come from your domain. SPF is a way to list IP addresses authorized to deliver mail on your behalf, and DKIM contains cryptographic keys needed to sign email coming from your main. That means if you have SPF and DKIM enabled, the only people able to send mail that appears to come from your domain are people that are authorized to do so (there are a few more bears on the road, but broadly this is true).

It's true that spammers can register their own domains for the sole purpose of sending spam, and they can enable SPF and DKIM on those too, but if they use domains exclusively to send spam, they will still be marked as spam domains by GMail, at least eventually.

But this doesn't explain why GMail should be distrustful of domains without SPF and DKIM records. There are literally hundred of millions DNS records worldwide, and only the tiniest minority (think, 1% or less) of those have SPF/DKIM records, and not having those records isn't evidence of being a spammer per se. But look from the perspective of spammers. If GMail adopts the policy that email from rare domains without SPF/DKIM records is accepted so long as they don't send high volumes of spam, then it's trivial for spammers to collect 100 million domains without SPF/DKIM and send literally 1 message from each, which results in a 100 million spam messages being accepted by GMail.

That's why GMail wants you to add SPF/DKIM records to your domain if you're not a spammer. It allows GMail to block email from the >99% of domains that don't have SPF/DKIM enabled. And for the remaining 1% of domains, it can either delete email outright (if it's forbidden by SPF/DKIM), or else it can reliably identify a domain as being spammy.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#160
Good.

I'm someone who a) uses Google Suite (or Workplace, or whatever it's called) b) runs a newsletter service [buttondown.email] that sends millions of emails every day, most of them to Gmail.

The amount of cold email I get from prospecting/outreach tools that is nigh-impossible to unsubscribe from is _infuriating_. Any legitimate bulk sender is already conforming to DKIM + one-click unsubscription, and anything we can do to cut down on obvious spam is a win in my book.

There's a lot of things Gmail does as de facto tsar of email that I don't love — initiatives like AMP for email come to mind — but this is an unalloyed positive in my mind.

Post reply on HN