Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

That's an understatement, especially for the situation under discussion. October 7th has forever destroyed any chance at diplomatic progress on the Palestinian cause. There will be zero political currency to make it happen.

One of the more curious phenomenons of this period is to watch Palestinians and their supporters speak of the future as if October 7th didn't happen.

And that there is some chance of diplomacy toward Palestinian statehood or an improvement in their condition going forward. There won't be, at least given their radicalized state that seems to be the status quo for the forseeable future. Life is going to be a misery for Palestinians, at least for generations more to come.

That isn't an emotional comment. It's an objective one that has the best interest of innocent Palestinians at heart, in terms of suggesting that they move away from radicalization and toward relocating to a region where they can actually have a quality of life.

Those whose rhetoric serves to keep Palestinians radicalized, such as yourself, in-part will be responsible for their continued abject misery. Situations permanently change and this is one of them.

>the presence of Hamas members in civilian areas does not give the Israeli military legal right to kill civilians.

You're confused as to how war works, absent proof of large scale targeting of only civilians.

Hamas just engaged in unspeakable evil to the end of beginning a real War. This isn't a joke. And it has chosen to hide in a dense urban area of one of its cities. Which is another act of unspeakable evil. Civilians should move South.

But no Army, especially one objectively guilty of an operation that was intended to be a massive and the most brutal of war crime, has ever been able to start a war and then hide among its civilians toward preventing its eradication. By claiming that the collateral damage incurred by going after them is a war crime. Leaving Hamas to commit future atrocities on target populations.

Yours are the ethics of the utilization of Human Shields toward engaging in War and War Crimes.

Luckily, the wider West has the baseline level of moral clarity enough to see through these "thin" arguments. If Hamas thought it was going to commit 10/7 and then use its civilians as legal shields, then it is finding out that it is mistaken. And it is further criminal for the attempt.

But it can end the War now by giving up now.

>retributive violence

An obvious falsehood given the already repeated constraints. See my prior posts.

> until conditions are met is just taking the “take hostages” paradigm to another scale.

Your logic car was teetering on its wheels and now has flipped into doing a double barrel roll down the highway.

This is a terrible attempt at inverting what is actually happening. Additionally, it mocks the vicitims of Hamas terror.

Hamas can free the Israeli hostages. Hamas can free Gaza immediately by removing itself from it, after starting a war.

The only stupidity here is how fiercely you are defending the continued actions, and their results, of the most potent terrorist threat in decades. On a public message board.

I don't want a single further civilian Palestinian to so much as get a scratch. They should all immeidately move South for the duration of this conflict, and work toward shaking off their Hamas rulers.

This is kind of broad and I don't think it's super fair to what I'm trying to say. You might want to solve stuff very badly, but simultaneously want to hold space for communal grief. There are examples of this all over the place (look at any community response to a mass shooting). Waving that away as "noise and energy" is IMO a kind of tech-bro, solutionist impulse that ignores the very real function that it serves in creating bonds between people or like entrenching a shared culture. Solutions come from coherent political movements, coherent political movements come from people who know and trust each other. Being together, in physical space, airing the same grievances and seeing how many people stand with you is incredibly empowering and an important step in producing the kind of mass movements that bring change. You can call that a luxury belief if you want, but I would encourage you to talk with poor people who actually organize political movements (although maybe you do and we just run in different circles) because I think your mind will be changed.

If I was willing to spend 30 days in jail lose thousands of dollars income and spend thousands more I might be able to win it when appeals took it out of that fucked up state.

Realistically I can't do anything about it.

On the other hand they didnt really investigate the 2 attempts to burn down my apartment building attempted homicide x 50 x 2 nor arrest the ex co-worker who tried to murder one of his fellows in a walmart parking lot.

I was left to organize a neighborhood patrol of the premises in the one case and get a psycho to chase me to get him off a guy who can only run by pressing x.

We live in the worst of all possible worlds where police are available to shoot teens but aren't available to do their jobs. If you wonder why you can't hire enough cops wonder no more. It's not liberals pissing in their cornflakes a lot of good folks don't choose to be a part of an obvious shit show.

In closing it's been said those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither but more importantly they get neither. A police state isn't a particularly safe place.