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Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

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Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#1
Say I have a website that is under DDOS attack. Assume it will be going on indefinitely. Assume my hosting provider has DDOS protection that will protect my servers but at the same time users will be unable to access the website.

How can I survive being targeted like this? Cycling IP addresses and updating DNS ad infinitum does not seem like viable solution... because in the end, it's the network attacks that get you, not the application level attacks.

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#2
How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

That probably depends on who your customers are. I can chime in one one scenario but maybe this does not help your case. If you are B2B then you could just shut off all public IP's and set up some Anycast VPN WAN accelerated meshes with your customers and use a wildcard sub-domain for each customer to access. They won't like having to set that up on their end but then they will have more resilience, privacy and security than they had before in that they can route around internet problems that would have otherwise caused outages or degraded services. Your company would have to provide professional services to help them with the setup and the customers would need discounts to offset the costs of the hardware assuming they do not already have it. The customers end-user devices would join their network over their VPN, not yours. For some B2B arrangements this isn't even a rounding error and removes scrubbing center costs and removes some SLA breach credits. Give this text to your principal network engineers, approve the spend and they will know what to do.

For the customers that do not accept this option, update the contracts and SLA's, then give them a public end-point that has a "best effort" SLA or use a cheap CDN if your contracts permit sending your sensitive data through them. Incentivize them to move to your Anycast VPN WAN accelerated mesh with tighter SLA's and improved security posture by keeping sensitive data off third party data processors like CDN's.

[Edit] This would also be a good time to use one of your companies sub-divisions or set up a new legal entity and get a new AS number with some dedicated IPv6 space and let your attackers just keep attacking the old address space. Announce the old IPv4 addresses on a throw away circuit to gather stats for law enforcement and network mailing lists. Try to do as much mesh peering with that new IPv6 space as you can. This is not security through obscurity so to speak, but rather a small piece of The Art of War.

The marketing team will not be happy but they can distribute their sites to a myriad of CDN's on marketing specific domains for your company. Gotta keep 'em separated, set some smart cache control headers and hope for the best.

An alternative to this semi-complex setup is to pay DDoS scrubbing centers to handle the routing of your datacenter traffic but that can hurt latency sensitive applications. This may be useful for the occasional extortion attack but would be very expensive and sub-optimial(c) in a never-ending indefinite DDoS attack.

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#5
post #3

Pay couple of $ for Cloudflare be done with it. https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos/ Don't forget to have a fresh IP before doing the move so that your origin is unknown.

but is it far-sighted that to keep the internet as free as possible there are no ways to mitigate a ddos,

and at the same time this freedom is completely lost

when the companies that protect against ddos can be counted on the fingers of one hand?

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#6
post #3

Pay couple of $ for Cloudflare be done with it. https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos/ Don't forget to have a fresh IP before doing the move so that your origin is unknown.

I hate that this is the right answer. I hate that I use it too. I hate that I don't have time/cash to explore alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#7
Assuming this is an API and not a website, my approach would be (other than just paying cloudflare to handle it).

Application servers that aren't listed on DNS and their IPs kept secret. A _lot_ of proxy servers that take requests, check the auth, and forward the valid requests to the application servers. For invalid requests, just let them time out.

If checking the auth is expensive enough to cause problems, require some proof-of-work in the request too, and only check the auth if the PoW is there.

In other words, keep all the DDOS traffic off the application servers. Have sacrificial proxies. Make it cheap to handle the DDOS traffic and expensive to generate the DDOS traffic. And then just process the traffic. Spread the proxies across multiple cloud providers if you need to - but ideally ones with free ingress.

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#8
post #3

Pay couple of $ for Cloudflare be done with it. https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos/ Don't forget to have a fresh IP before doing the move so that your origin is unknown.

Doesn't it bring you a tiny bit of concern that this is only current answer people can give?

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#9
post #3

Pay couple of $ for Cloudflare be done with it. https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos/ Don't forget to have a fresh IP before doing the move so that your origin is unknown.

Yeah. Cloudflare sucks but it's also by far the most effective solution against this type of stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How to survive indefinite DDoS attack?

#10
post #3

Pay couple of $ for Cloudflare be done with it. https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos/ Don't forget to have a fresh IP before doing the move so that your origin is unknown.

Heck, even Cloudflare free tier is very impressive. That's why it's so widespread.
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