Live data from Hacker News

The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

github.com

321–330 of 364 posts

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can’t even scrape together $629 for something as essential as a software signature I don't think the $629 itself is the problem, but rather that they're being forced to spend it on something that many people don't agree is "essential" in any way. Is it about security, or is it about crying "security" to push through a pay-to-play market?

> but rather that they're being forced to spend it on something that many people don't agree is "essential" in any way. Putting the price aside just for a second, are there really people out there who think that code signing isn't worthwhile? Remember paint.net/filezilla having ad links to "Download Now" that would download... not paint.net or filezilla?

Heh. Downloading from Filezilla's authentic website is no guarantee you're not getting malware. :(

They're widely known for shipping malware with at least some of their downloads (windows only maybe?), and completely ignoring posts on their forum about it.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Ms hasn't asked for it.

Of course MS asked for it. They created and sustain this situation where software needs to signed for it to easily run on the Windows platform. Who do you think put the signature checking code and root keys in Windows?? The code signing gnomes?? fairies??

Seems more like the work of gremlins or devils. ;)

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#323
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This way of working should have been left behind in the previous century. Sandboxing should be default. Associating file endings should be a suggestion to the OS, accepted by the user, not something only configurable by delegating full super admin to third party app. Slow loading context menus where every app tries to claim its presence. Thank you for reminding me why I don’t use Windows since years ago. A image edit…

I disagree entirely. The only reason for creating native apps is to allow apps to interoperate and integrate deeply with the OS. Apps should be free to pass data around with each other, and this absurd level of security overreach, suggesting every app should be sandboxed, is actively hurting the computing world. Sure, if you're making a game or some browser replacement, then go for sandboxing. But most productivity s…

That made sense in the olden times of a decade or two ago. Now, when you can not trust any software on your machine to refrain from exfiltrating telemetry—no longer. Even FLOSS is not enough.

Thankfully open-snitch is now available on Debian.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s not relevant to your point, can you make your point without stating something that is false?

"Look at it this way, why should a project like IM pay anyone for the privilege of enriching and adding value to the Windows platform?"

They aren’t adding value to the Windows platform, unless you consider any application is adding value to the platform it is running on. In which case why should one pay for dev tools, their dev computer, libraries, art assets, etc…

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#325
You can use the embedable release of python (which is signed) to run arbitrary unsigned code on windows. If you don't believe me, try it. Code signing on windows is a security theater at best and is next to useless.

I agree that let's encrypt should just issue them. If Microsoft refuses to support it, someone should write a windows kernel module to add (or patch in) support.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#326
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also not clear why the IM project should be paying MS and not the other way round…

MS does not sell certificates.

It's the one mandating them and not offering acceptable alternatives.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#327
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be leaping to the wrong conclusion. The problem is Canonical charging money for security updates. CentOS, Alma, Rocky, Fedora, Debian, openSUSE, Arch, and 300+ other Linux distros don't charge money for security updates either. The moral of the story is "Don't use enshitifying corporate Linux distros run by crazy people."

The problem of Canonical charging money for security updates is off-topic when we're discussing ImageMagick's code-signing troubles on Windows.

That's your opinion, and I don't care for your attempts to shut people down. Kindly control people on the rest of the internet. :peace:

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but rather that they're being forced to spend it on something that many people don't agree is "essential" in any way. Putting the price aside just for a second, are there really people out there who think that code signing isn't worthwhile? Remember paint.net/filezilla having ad links to "Download Now" that would download... not paint.net or filezilla?

IDK, I navigated paint.net downloads perfectly fine over the years, and still do. But sure, I can't expect my parents or most people in general to have a sense for what is or isn't legit on the Internet. Still, if a major problem is ads directing to malware-infested downloads, how about before we start requiring OSS projects to become legal entities, we apply the same idea to advertisers ? Why not introduce "ad signi…

Just to add on top of this: I also really don't understand how Paint.net paying $600 to sign its releases would have actually changed anything about those malicious ads, because a malicious ad can still point you towards a resource that isn't signed that claims to be Paint.net.

If a user has the presence to know whether or not they should expect a specific Open Source program to be signed, then they probably can get it directly from the website? And if they can't find an official download link, then they probably won't realize anything is wrong when they get an unsigned application because how on earth would someone know whether or not Paint.net is signed without visiting the official website to check? So either the malicious ads get caught and they aren't displayed, or... I mean, I don't know, unless there's something I'm missing I just don't see how a malicious ad that directs someone to a fake download page for Paint.net isn't going to be able to get crap on a victim's computer regardless of what Paint.net separately does to the real binaries.

The user doesn't download the real binaries, that's the entire scam. The user doesn't know if Paint.net signs its binaries and they don't know if the warning they're getting from the OS should or shouldn't be ignored. So on top of shifting the burden onto the wrong people, it's also not 100% clear to me that shifting the burden onto developers actually improves security all that much?

I'm not against application signing, it can be an important part of security, but not when it's a manual process that costs $600. And not just on its own in isolation, and not when it's an optional process that (because of the cost) many applications aren't going to participate in to begin with. I'm not against signing applications on a conceptual level; I like being able to verify releases. But the Windows/Mac signing process sounds a lot like security theater to me.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#329
post #208

I feel their pain. I built an open source video player for esports coaches[1] that it given away for free and one the constant complaints about it is that users have to bypass warnings when installing it for the first time. I can afford to pay for certificates (I believe I have to have one for Windows and OSX) but I refuse to for a project that I already give away my time for. I would love to see a LetsEncrypt style…

> I refuse to for a project that I already give away my time for. Maybe I’m naive but I feel like the solution is pretty obvious: just crowdsource the cost of the certificate and only sign the software as long as the money keeps coming in. If people really do care that much they should be willing to help shoulder the cost, and if they’re not then there shouldn’t be a problem with it being unsigned.

I don't want to ask for money either. I can afford the code signing, I refuse to pay it out of principle.

Re: The Windows installer of ImageMagick will no longer be signed

#330

Why do we let any random application open its own files and folders at will? The actual selection and opening of files and other resources should be the job of the operating system. GUI programs should be able to call "open" "save" and other dialogs to get handles to files, not just their names. The OS should limit access to resources to those it provides (as capability tokens) and nothing else. For CLI programs, the…

You may be interested in trying Qubes OS, which provides security through compartmentalization: https://qubes-os.org

Nope... I'm waiting for Genode to get to the point where I can use it as a daily driver... or GNU Hurd.

Sandboxes and containers are what you do when you don't have proper capability models to utilize. I'll keep putting up with Win10 or Linux until I get that.

Post reply on HN