YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#51

Post by happytoexplain » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

philipwhiuk wrote: post #26

crop_rotation wrote: post #9

Apart from the Youtube stuff, the post also highlights something else, entitlement towards free services like uBlock origin. > It’s one thing to play cat and mouse with YouTube. It’s quite another to deal with a wave of angry users. > And then one of the moderators actually deleted their Reddit account. “The ID in the post wasn’t updated because my mother was hospitalized,” they said. It’s sad to see them leave becau…

If they didn't have such entitlement they wouldn't be blocking the ads in the first place.

The technology that constitutes the internet is fundamentally incompatible with this opinion, despite that businesses would absolutely love if they could convince people otherwise. Trying to prevent me from modifying whatever you send me for my purely private use is mostly infeasible and potentially immoral, regardless of how that simple reality affects your business model.

It is not the user's responsibility to alter their behavior to support a business's strategy. If a video hosting platform is mathematically unsustainable with the number of people who choose to view ads, along with any other sources of income, then that's just the way it is: Unsustainable (However, the answer to the question is: It's sustainable. Leadership just might not like what that means in practice).

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#52

Post by ketzo » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

MostlyStable wrote: post #23

ketzo wrote: post #8

Why, from first principles, should YouTube allow this? Why shouldn’t they go thermonuclear? I understand ads are annoying - I block as many as I can! - but I’ve never seen someone put together a coherent defense of the practice.

Neither side is wrong. Youtube has every right to try as hard as it can to get users to view ads. And users have every right to try as hard as they can to block those ads. I don't have a right to ad-free youtube, but I do have every right to try and control what things get sent to and viewed on my computer. If I (and people like me) are abundant enough and succesful enough, then youtube and other services will be for…

I think this is a great take, with one exception: I think the loss of (free) ad-supported YouTube would be a devastating loss for the world at large.

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#53

Post by Yhippa » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

oaththrowaway wrote: post #32

I use NewPipe on my phone, SmartTubeNext on my Android TV, and uBlock+FF inside of a container without being logged in on my laptop. I was at a friend's house yesterday and they showed me a video on YouTube. I couldn't believe how many ads there were. It was unwatchable. Not sure how people don't pay for premium or block ads. What a miserable experience.

I presume that you don't pay for Premium? And that the average user isn't interested in installing a tech cocktail on their systems?

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#54

Post by gchamonlive » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

crop_rotation wrote: post #9

Apart from the Youtube stuff, the post also highlights something else, entitlement towards free services like uBlock origin. > It’s one thing to play cat and mouse with YouTube. It’s quite another to deal with a wave of angry users. > And then one of the moderators actually deleted their Reddit account. “The ID in the post wasn’t updated because my mother was hospitalized,” they said. It’s sad to see them leave becau…

We could apply LLMs to act as an interface with the angry crowd, rephrasing angry comments into constructive criticism and summarizing needs. In turn LLMs could be applied to synthesise development progress and answer the angry crowd. Everyone would be happy.

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#55

Post by jamielife » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

throw_pm23 wrote: post #19

ketzo wrote: post #8

Why, from first principles, should YouTube allow this? Why shouldn’t they go thermonuclear? I understand ads are annoying - I block as many as I can! - but I’ve never seen someone put together a coherent defense of the practice.

What about ads displayed on a busstop? Should I feel guilty for looking the other way? It subsidizes public transportation afterall..

Not really a fair comparison. The equivalent to "looking the other way," on YouTube would be exactly that, looking somewhere other than the ad (opening another browser, going to the bathroom, etc.).

Ad Blockers are essential painting over the bus stop ad completely, so you don't even have a chance to see it.

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#56

Post by thomastjeffery » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

crop_rotation wrote: post #9

Apart from the Youtube stuff, the post also highlights something else, entitlement towards free services like uBlock origin. > It’s one thing to play cat and mouse with YouTube. It’s quite another to deal with a wave of angry users. > And then one of the moderators actually deleted their Reddit account. “The ID in the post wasn’t updated because my mother was hospitalized,” they said. It’s sad to see them leave becau…

> especially when you consider that there are only two people on the uBO team

Why in the world are there only two? That's your problem right there.

How many competent devs are right here in the comment section? Why is it so difficult to get their help?

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#57

Post by ls612 » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

tomComb wrote: post #43

kiernanmcgowan wrote: post #27

This ad block debate makes me think about patio11’s post “The optimal amount of fraud is non zero”. Essentially in trying to make a system as fraud-free as possible you make it too difficult to work with / the cost of fighting fraud is higher than the cost of the fraud. Ads vs Ad Blockers seem to be in that space, but on the cost of customer good will. Can YouTube squeeze more money from ads by doing this? Sure. Is i…

I doubt YouTube is going for zero. I suspect they only took action recently because ad blockers have become very common.

I thought it was still something stupid low like 10% of people using adblockers?

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#58

Post by deadmutex » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

crop_rotation wrote: post #9

Apart from the Youtube stuff, the post also highlights something else, entitlement towards free services like uBlock origin. > It’s one thing to play cat and mouse with YouTube. It’s quite another to deal with a wave of angry users. > And then one of the moderators actually deleted their Reddit account. “The ID in the post wasn’t updated because my mother was hospitalized,” they said. It’s sad to see them leave becau…

> I have seen this becoming more and more common on open source projects and totally free services, where people act as if they are entitled to something as if it is their god given right.

Do you count YouTube as a "free service" (with ads) in this case?

I wonder if there is an overlap with people that expect free stuff and people that use uBO on YouTube. YT does offer most users YT premium, which gives users an ad free experience.

Disclosure: I worked at YT in the past, but still pay for premium because I don't want the ads.

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#59

Post by uoaei » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

frebdo wrote: post #45

crop_rotation wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about free and open source products like ublock origin and not YouTube itself. Entitilement towards youtube can be debated, entitlement toward uBlock origin is just bad behaviour.

Such is my reading comprehension on Saturday lol

Today is Sunday

Re: YouTube's Anti-Adblock and uBlock Origin

#60

Post by repelsteeltje » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #4

YouTube will "lose" the war, but they'll make adblocking difficult enough for a while that it might get some premium subscribers in the short term in exchange for the loss of goodwill.

Let's start by looking at YouTube's incentives:

* don't waste infrastructure on freeloaders

* convince advertisers audience is seeing the ads they pay for

The content is free in the sense Google pays (close to) nothing and in the sense that creators can go to a different platform (as long as viewers come too).

Cost centers are data centers, bandwidth and labour maintaining the platform. Wrt. the latter, I would estimate the anti ad blocker stuff has significant costs, but isn't eating into the dev cycle in an existential way yet.

At some point they might be in trouble. Anyone have an idea when?