> You hire everyday great people. Each one needs to be great at something, obsessed by their craft, and driven by quality. You then put them together in a team, without individual responsibilities, ensuring that there’s minimal overlap in areas of greatness. My current company is full of smart people, and (for a variety of reasons) we don't have product managers. It sucks . What happens is that the things a PM does d…
> Very few engineers want to maintain relationships with customers That’s what CX is for. > interview users to identify potential features That’s what designers are for. > manage leadership, play politics for resource allocation That’s what your lead/people manager is for. You don’t need a PM. You need an org chart.
The product manager role is a mistake
181–190 of 370 posts
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#182There is IMO no correlation between being mediocre and being put off by intensity and passion.
Overall I think this article generalizes a lot. I can't say for sure that the article is not applicable to a certain part of the industry, but it certainly doesn't in any way represent my experience.
PMs can be good, bad, or anything inbetween. I've never experienced that a good PM was not a benefit to a project.
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#183Ahh Red Queen strikes again! Such is life
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
With regards to hiring, this is tricky because all candidates will try to put their best food forward and have a reasonable explanation for everything on their resume. In addition, low performers can look like high performers if their experience was painted by working at places with low expectations. I’ve hired very high performing people who later admitted to being PIPed many times throughout their career but these…
A bigger population just hasn't been trained properly. We have no controls for that, so people get lucky with disparate learning being just enough for their first job, then that turns into experience towards the next job. Then they find themselves among high performers and can't keep up, really through no fault of their own. Some high performers are just natural and born with it, which is unfair to let that affect ho…
I agree, but I am also hesitant to advocate for controls in the form of certification (degrees, licenses, etc) because it just adds a layer that provides a strong positive signal for a while until it’s just inundated by grifters yet again, so now we’re back to square one.
We see this take the form of degree mills and accelerated trade schools initially, which ends up creating more problems, more barriers, and ceases to benefit the companies looking to hire. Everything can and will be gamified, and I am also hesitant to tie people to former employers so heavily as that creates an unhealthy power imbalance.
Then how can we control for talent? I don’t know the answer to this question or if it’s even the right question to ask, but I’m fairly confident that we cannot solve this using 20th century nor modern hiring and screening processes.
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience: working with a good or great PM is fun and productive. Working without a PM is ok. Working with a bad PM is somewhere between irritating and infuriating.
Yep. A great PM is an amazing force multiplier. A bad PM drags the whole org down.
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#186The simplest thing I can boil it down to is how they respond when asked a question. With the exceptional PM, when you asked a question you got an answer.
With bad PMs, you ask a question and you get "Good callout! I'll try to get some alignment with our stakeholders on that". Every decision point spins out into this web of stakeholders and cross-functional team buy-in. And no decision is ever made, everything is always in flux and uncertain. During this process they have produced an entire literature of documentation, each version contradictory to the others. "That feature was only in the original doc, we got rid of it in v2" but also "That feature was in v1, I forgot to copy paste it into v2 but we never canceled it. Sorry!" Every variation of every feature exists somewhere, a kind of superposition of the product out there somewhere.
It consistently amazes me that they never seem to be able to grasp how self-destructive this is to the product development. Or maybe they do, but they just don't care and they are just exploiting their evaluation framework. Probably the latter.
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#187Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#188I wont hire a PM now that isn't also a contributor during work or in their spare time. Not only should they be excellent leads, they should be able to get down and dirty actually move the needle, design something, write code. Run their own damn prototype and test.
A big part of my current role is just empowering more Jr PMs to contribute more by educating them on certain skills, but it doesn't scale and none of them have the drive to study the subjects on their own.
I envision a shift coming. Ive never subscribed to the bullshit, but Im personally moving away from much of the "PM activities" and spending more time on my original skills, design and engineering...
Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#189Re: The product manager role is a mistake
#190Project Managers can also be very useful in a complex project that spans departments but that’s a completely separate role