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Running Speeds

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Re: Running Speeds

#61

Post by blobberz »

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #15
PaulKeeble wrote: post #11

I used to like watching the Special forces selection process TV shows. They would claim that mostly people failed due to mental fortitude. The problem was repeatedly in these shows you would see people who weren't fit enough, whose muscles were not capable of the physical strength and stamina necessary to push like this. Many had trained very hard and were in very good shape but they just couldn't sustain it in the c…

Yes, the mental fortitude is much overblown aspect. Yes, there is this thing as mental fortitude and you can even train it to persist to run hard, especially when you "kick" at the end of a race. But this only helps to a very small degree, the most of the result is due to more mundane aspects like your experience with running, your running efficiency, your aerobic capacity, your additional fat you are carrying with y…

I disagree, there's a lot of prolonged mental fortitude required during hard efforts. So 3x per week during workouts and in every race.

Re: Running Speeds

#62

Post by blobberz »

chewz wrote: post #42
onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the mental fortitude is much overblown aspect. Yes, there is this thing as mental fortitude and you can even train it to persist to run hard, especially when you "kick" at the end of a race. But this only helps to a very small degree, the most of the result is due to more mundane aspects like your experience with running, your running efficiency, your aerobic capacity, your additional fat you are carrying with y…

Running isn’t an activity where you need much mental fortitude. But in sailing in 10 Beaufort or climbing in extreme weather it is all about mental fortitude not physical strength or training. Some people just quit, give up and others stand at the steering wheel for 6 hours despite soaked clothes and blowing gale.

Do you have a lot of experience with competitive running (racing)?

Re: Running Speeds

#64

Post by salty_biscuits »

alexmolas wrote: post #35
leto_ii wrote: post #9

I'm not sure this analysis is as surprising or meaningful as it might seem at first sight. In the end I think what this tells us is that in the general population there are many distinct subpopulations with different distributions of running speed. I would expect that if you start conditioning on things (e.g. gender, age, level of fitness) things start looking a lot more normal, rather than log-normal. You might not…

If I'm not wrong you can't obtain a lognormal as a mixture of Gaussian distributions. The processes that generate these distributions are completely different. Gaussian distribution arise when the factors are additive, and lognormal when factors are multiplicative, so these are two completely different distributions. The same way I don't think you can get a normal distribution just by conditioning on an exponential d…

A gaussian mixture is a universal density approximator, so you can definitely approximate a lognormal with such a model.

Re: Running Speeds

#65

Post by Lukas_Skywalker »

lordnacho wrote: post #40

I've often wondered how exactly I might increase my sprint speed, in terms of form. I've never met a sprint trainer, so all I can do is just try to naturally sprint, but I'm clearly not very fast and never was. But somehow I don't even know what the fundamentals are. What do you need to do to be fast? The other amazing thing is that marathon runners seem to be faster than I can sprint, and I really don't get how they…

I was a coach once. There are two mistakes where most people can benefit a lot if they fix them. They are somewhat connected.

1) Foot strike to far in the front as in [1] and [2]. This mostly happens because people want to run fast, and therefore take longer steps. It is very counterproductive though. A longer steps lowers your center of gravity, and because the foot strikes the ground very far in front of the COG, you need to lift your COG before you can do the next step. This is visible in the video of the article as well. The amateurs have a much larger vertical movement of their heads and torsos than the Freeze.

2) Insufficient leg extension at the end of the ground contact as in [3] and [4]. There are two reasons for that. The first one is connected to the point above. If you keep the COG very low, you are forced to bend the hip and the knee while you move your torso over your foot. It's very hard to extend hip and knee after that, so many people just lift the leg instead of pushing all the way through. The second reason is mobility. Sitting all day shortens the hip flexor muscles (M. iliopsoas). Stretching them helps a lot.

Many of the people in the video are also starting quite fast and get considerably slower over the course of those 160m. Tiredness might be an important factor there.

[1] Bolt, foot strike: https://imgur.com/a/QOQaEX2

[2] Amateur, foot strike: https://imgur.com/a/Pmiijgx

[3] Bolt, leg extension: https://imgur.com/a/mRCq7uc

[4] Amateur, leg extension: https://imgur.com/a/cxzMkEi

Re: Running Speeds

#66

Post by zimpenfish »

glenngillen wrote: post #60
lordnacho wrote: post #40

I've often wondered how exactly I might increase my sprint speed, in terms of form. I've never met a sprint trainer, so all I can do is just try to naturally sprint, but I'm clearly not very fast and never was. But somehow I don't even know what the fundamentals are. What do you need to do to be fast? The other amazing thing is that marathon runners seem to be faster than I can sprint, and I really don't get how they…

As someone else mentioned, there’s plenty on YouTube to help re form. That said, I’m helping my elementary aged kids improve their middle distance running (I’m no sprinter, so I can’t help there) and the two basic tips I’ve been using to help them: - practice barefoot occasionally, and pay attention to how your form changes. You’re more likely to just naturally land on your forefoot when you’ve no shoes on. Now try a…

> practice barefoot occasionally

And make sure to ease yourself into it gradually. Easy to go into it full-pelt and do lasting damage to things like your Achilles and knees.

Re: Running Speeds

#67

Post by underdeserver »

Phenomenit wrote: post #51
underdeserver wrote: post #27

Before I was injured, I used to run 8 km (about 5 miles), three times a week. I maintained about 5:30 minutes/km, and I would sprint the last 200 or so meters at the end. I measured the speed - the run was mostly around 10-12 km/h, the sprint around 18 km/h. I'm not a fast sprinter at all, but I was in my late twenties and maintained this schedule for a while and figured I might be average or better. To put this in p…

Did you get injured because you sprinted in the end when your legs were worn down? I’m just asking because that happened to me a few times before I put two and two together.

I don't know. This was years ago. I saw doctor after doctor and last I checked - about six months ago - it was still happening (pain and swelling in my left shin after about 4 minutes of running). I moved to bicycling instead.

Re: Running Speeds

#68

Post by nlh »

I have what may be a silly (or even ridiculous) question:

Why do recreational distance runners care about speed so much?

Background: I went through a phase of long-distance recreational running - I ran lots of half-marathons, marathons, and even the Disney Goofy Challenge for a few years (half marathon on Saturday, full marathon on Sunday).

It was all fun! Training was satisfying, the running itself was tough but rewarding, I lost a ton of weight, got into great cardio shape, and overall, arguably, it changed my life for the better.

But I never once cared about doing any of it quickly, and I still don't. It was always about the distance and the experience for me -- could I successfully run 26 miles? (and then enjoy the rewards of being able to eat a huge high-calorie meal guiltlessly afterwards ;)

It's still about the distance -- I love cycling these days and do it regularly with a lovely group of friends who also care about moving our legs and riding, say, 100 miles in a morning, which is a challenge. But so so many other cyclists on the road as so focused on both doing it and doing it FASTER.

I just don't really fully comprehend why so many people care so much about the clock, beating other people, etc. I know I'm not alone here, but I also know I'm in the minority, so I'd love to hear some perspective.

Re: Running Speeds

#69

Post by vrc »

lordnacho wrote: post #40

I've often wondered how exactly I might increase my sprint speed, in terms of form. I've never met a sprint trainer, so all I can do is just try to naturally sprint, but I'm clearly not very fast and never was. But somehow I don't even know what the fundamentals are. What do you need to do to be fast? The other amazing thing is that marathon runners seem to be faster than I can sprint, and I really don't get how they…

You need a sprint specific coach. Most coaches and clubs you’ll find start at middle distance and go up in distances they train. While you’ll learn basic drills that sprinters also do, the details, cues, form etc will be different, and the training program will be very different. It will involve a lot more plyometrics, more drills, and shorter distances. So you’ll see improvements if you’ve never run before training for mid distance+, but to eke out maximal sprint performance from form, you’ll plateau and also have poor sprinting mechanics. Also, I see some advice about lifting weights. Great adjunct to sprinting, but you need to learn proper sprint mechanics and training to see carryover (see: the number of big number lifters who can’t sprint worth crap v. 14 y/os who can dust them and have never seen a weight but have trained formally).

Re: Running Speeds

#70

Post by darkerside »

nlh wrote: post #68

I have what may be a silly (or even ridiculous) question: Why do recreational distance runners care about speed so much? Background: I went through a phase of long-distance recreational running - I ran lots of half-marathons, marathons, and even the Disney Goofy Challenge for a few years (half marathon on Saturday, full marathon on Sunday). It was all fun! Training was satisfying, the running itself was tough but rew…

Why did you care about your distance? What's so special about going farther and farther every time until you hit some arbitrary goal like 26.2 miles? Beating your last time is fine and rewarding, and you can choose your next goal to be whatever you want.
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