Live data from Hacker News

Are colonoscopies worth it?

asteriskmag.com

121–130 of 296 posts

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#121

It’s time to share something personal again. When I was 20, I vividly remember being in the bathroom at my workplace when a large amount of blood started coming out. I did what any smart, effective 20yo would do: ignored it because I was embarrassed. Fast forward 10 years, and I’d been ignoring it for a decade. It had continued to happen every few months. Sometimes the blood was so bad I’d have to wait up to 20 minut…

It’s also good know that if you’re seeing bright red blood then it’s a higher chance it’s hemorrhoids whereas dark red you definitely should get it checked because it’s coming from inside your colon. Also there’s supposedly a poop test called fecal occult blood test that has a high rate of detecting colorectal cancer that you do over the course of 3 years. I saw this on nhk Doctor's Insight: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nh…

Advice too simplistic, end of colon can emit blood also and then it’s brighter

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#122

I have a genetic predisposition for colon cancer, and have had nine colonoscopies: one every one–two years. As others have said: if your colon is otherwise healthy, it is safe and the worst part is the prep. However, the last time 10 months ago, my body's immune system was stressed by another cancer, and so a tumour developed in only nine months. Because of the risk of more colon cancer during the treatment of the ot…

>I always watched the screens: it was beautiful and fascinating.

It is a weird experience. The ultimate form of introspection!

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#123
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to post the same thing – Poland launched a nationwide campaign two years ago to get all people over 50 years old (above 40 if they had family history) in for a colonoscopy. However, the linked article is working with a European study done a decade ago (EDIT: I’m wrong about that). There may have once been greater differences between American and European approaches.

Data does not seem to indicate better survival odds so whats the point?

There would be an reduction of 37% in diagnoses if everyone would have accepted the treatment (but no data for mortality).

How significant is reducing a small risk (1%) significantly?

(Base rate fallacy)

"The right graph compares those results to the observed outcomes for acceptors in our branch of the multiverse, where they did have colonoscopies. At the end of the trial, there’s a reduction of 37%. Unfortunately, data aren’t available to do this for mortality,..."

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#124

It’s time to share something personal again. When I was 20, I vividly remember being in the bathroom at my workplace when a large amount of blood started coming out. I did what any smart, effective 20yo would do: ignored it because I was embarrassed. Fast forward 10 years, and I’d been ignoring it for a decade. It had continued to happen every few months. Sometimes the blood was so bad I’d have to wait up to 20 minut…

It’s also good know that if you’re seeing bright red blood then it’s a higher chance it’s hemorrhoids whereas dark red you definitely should get it checked because it’s coming from inside your colon. Also there’s supposedly a poop test called fecal occult blood test that has a high rate of detecting colorectal cancer that you do over the course of 3 years. I saw this on nhk Doctor's Insight: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nh…

Unless, of course, you uave both: the office worker hemorrhoids and colon cancer. Ask me how I know that! So no, if ypi start bleeding from your body without having injured yourself, see a doctor and get it checked out.

Wrll, actually, if thebimjury is beyond "a self applied band aid can fix it", see a doctor as well!

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#125
>3. It’s irresponsible to call colonoscopies “invasive” (as CNN did) since that might make people think they are unpleasant and not do them.

They are invasive, they are also unpleasant. It isn’t irresponsible to say those things it’s just true.

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#126
I see several personal accounts and I could also share mine but given that colonoscopies "rarely — but not that rarely — have serious side effects" and that there was only an overall 1% difference of all cause mortality between the groups in the trial, is it worth risking the side effects if you are healthy and don't have any symptoms?

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#127

Given people don’t read the full article, and that feels pretty important in this discussion, I will quote the way it ends: > One thing is clear: Screening works. If you’re of the appropriate age, please get screened. If your tubes are acting funny, please get screened without delay. The best method and the level of benefit are debatable, but we know it helps. Use a stool test if you want (multitarget DNA test if you…

> One thing is clear: Screening works. If you’re of the appropriate age, please get screened. If your tubes are acting funny, please get screened without delay. The best method and the level of benefit are debatable, but we know it helps.

That's unfortunate, because it's a poor summary of the actual paper the article is discussing. If you bother to read the rest of the article, you'll see the actual summary of the trial, and it's pretty darned easy to interpret for yourself:

https://asteriskmag.com/media/pages/issues/04/you-re-invited...

to wit:

> The 18% reduction in colorectal cancer incidence was statistically significant, while the 10% reduction in colorectal cancer mortality and 1% reduction in overall mortality were not.

(Those reductions are relative risks, which are on very small baseline numbers.)

Then the article goes on for many pages about how American gastroenterologists do not agree...which isn't terribly shocking, considering the source of the argument. But a number of rebuttals are made, some of which are reasonable (i.e. colonoscopies are one of the few screening tests to actually do something to prevent disease, in the form of clipping polyps), and others of which are quite simply lies ("other studies have estimated larger benefits for colonoscopies" -- yeah, but those studies were bad, and this one was good, which is why we're talking about it!)

Note that American gastroenterologists do a lot of colonoscopies, mostly without good evidence. This was the first major RCT in decades to consider the question at all. The other screening methods have even worse evidence, and certainly no good evidence at the young ages we do them in the USA (currently 40 in men; the studies are all in much older age groups).

Overall, the NORDICC trial paints an incredibly ambiguous picture for the effectiveness of colonoscopy at preventing severe illness or death -- at the very least, the benefits are likely dramatically overstated. Discussing all of this, then turning around and claiming "it works" is an insult to evidence-based medicine.

(FWIW, I'm personally torn on the meaning of the study. I just think that "one thing is clear" line is a particularly odious bit of "journalism" -- not the least because it confuses symptom-free screening with doing something in reaction to symptoms. The rest of the article is pretty fair, IMO, but that line is substituting the opinion of the author for an actual summary of the data.)

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#128
post #115
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing. I'll share a story to help destigmatize. A few months ago I was taken completely out of commission by GI symptoms, just hours and hours of pain and vomiting. It turned out I had an infection, but the infection caused there to be shapes on my intestine that apparently looked vaguely like Crohn's disease on the MRI (or something, I'm not a radiologist, my understanding is pretty vague. There were…

The prep is even easier these days, my last colonoscopy earlier this year it was a few pills and then just drinking a lot of normal water.

I vividly remember the old "disgusting powder downed with 4-5 litres of water in two hours" followed by thebsame time on the toilette. Nowadys, while still not delicious, the stuff is acceptable taste-wise, takes all of 1 litre of liquid and after three trips to the bathroom you're good.

No idea ehy people are so afraid of that. Ifbyou have nothong, fine. If you do, it migjt very well save your live or very serious surgery down the road. After all, whatever it is, it wont go away just because it remains undiagnosed. After all, a falling tree in the woods without anyone next to it still makes the same noise.

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a misdiagnosed anal fissure for a year. Get the ass doctor involved early, my GP was clueless about it and had me trying hemorrhoid/lidocaine creams for a year while in agonizing pain. The first thing the ass doctor asked was; do you know what a fissure is? before the exam even started. I learned to skip past the general doctors to the specialist from this experience. Also, the anus is the fulcrum of your body,…

> I learned to skip past the general doctors to the specialist from this experience. What concerns is that where I live, it's my understanding that, with a few exceptions [0], you can't skip a GP and go directly to a specialist. And I'm not convinced that GPs here are any better than in the US or elsewhere. Bonus points for large parts of the country not even having enough GPs for their population. --- [0] You can go…

If you're in the UK (you used "GP", so I'm guessing), then you absolutely can. Just go private. (https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/nhs-services-and-...).

Don't bother with the NHS, it's a carwreck. See this, for example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67239548

Last month, after years of waiting, I got a letter again delaying my assessment for a growth on my neck, for the foreseeable future. It's a good job that I'd gone private a year ago, as it turned out to be extremely advanced, with neural invasion, requiring two rounds of surgery to be removed.

Nationalised healthcare ought to be means-tested to target help at the people who need it, and not delay others who can afford to pay their way. The population 'pyramid' as it stands can't support the health and social care model we're using, and the lack of market incentives means that we don't train enough medics.

Re: Are colonoscopies worth it?

#130

I do regular colonoscopies because of a condition. People are worried about the procedure, as I was my first times. Here are some things that I wish someone had told me: - Taking the meds for cleaning out your system the day before is far worse than the procedure itself. - Have a lollipop to stick in your mouth after Each time you take a shot of the laxatives. It helps with the vile taste of it. - If you need relaxin…

O man I did one of these last week and I so wish I had known that lollipop trick then. The cleaning out of my system the day before really was the worst part for me.
Post reply on HN