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Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

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Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#51

Post by djbusby »

alexopensource wrote: post #11
wrs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DocuSign itself just refers you to your own counsel for legal advice, but does publish and update a handy multi-country legal reference. For the US one, at least, they give examples of where electronic signatures are pretty common and straightforward, and where you need to be careful. Software-wise, they have features to help you show evidence of who signed, where, and when in multiple ways. Nothing magical, though.…

We also generate a completion certificate that has the time & ip addresses of everyone who accessed and modified a doc during the entire signing process, plus we are open source which means more transparent. We plan to publish a lot of content in that space but with limited resources currently we plan to build the product features first. Also, we are soon going to start our fund raise efforts which will ultimately sp…

Those certs integrated with with any Timestamp Authority?

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#52

Post by Sebguer »

tiahura wrote: post #44
yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

You are incorrect. I'm not familiar with any law that requires Docusign in any jurisdiction in which I practice. The Federal Esign Act provides: 15 USC 7006(5): The term “electronic signature” means an electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign the record.

You're misreading OP, they're not saying anything about law requiring Docusign, they're saying that Docusign has invested in meeting the law.

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#53

Post by jeron »

figassis wrote: post #31
yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

Wouldn’t it be amazing, since e signatures have been around for ages, that governments just published the requirements for legally binding digital signatures rather than ask each maker to go talk to them and get some obscure license or blessing?

How else will DocuSign have a moat??

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#54

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

jjeaff wrote: post #6
yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

Are there really any laws requiring special types of signatures? Because I've never had a legal doc sent to me that they weren't fine with just stamping my signature on the line or even printing it out, signing it, and scanning it back in.

There is one state agency in USA that requires wet black ink for contracts. I forgot which state it is, this happened two years ago. They said no expectations, it have to be wet black signature, period. They will inspect the PDF to check the signature that it is not e-signed.

It was odd because I handled federal and state contracts in previous job, they don't have a problem with e-signature.

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#55

Post by 29athrowaway »

This is similar to creating an open source nuclear waste management solution.

Why would you want to store nuclear waste? Think about it. Even if you can, is that really what you want? Forever?

There are probably more incentives and less legal liability storing nuclear waste than sensitive documents.

It's not that other companies cannot do it, it's that nobody wants to do it.

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#56

Post by SoftTalker »

tiahura wrote: post #44
yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

You are incorrect. I'm not familiar with any law that requires Docusign in any jurisdiction in which I practice. The Federal Esign Act provides: 15 USC 7006(5): The term “electronic signature” means an electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign the record.

AFAIK, anything that is intended to be a signature, is a signature. This can be a hand-drawn "X", a signed name, a typed name, a fingerprint, a rubber stamp, clicking "I Agree" checkboxes, etc.

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#57

Post by nonethewiser »

saled wrote: post #41
yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

You know that there's nothing stopping an open source project funded as a not for profit from doing the same thing right? If something is hard, that's an argument for making a standard not for profit version of it, so it becomes a common good instead of platform rent seekers keeping out competition by saying it's "too hard".

How do you personally differentiate between “rent seeking” and running a business?

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#59

Post by paulryanrogers »

nonethewiser wrote: post #57
saled wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that there's nothing stopping an open source project funded as a not for profit from doing the same thing right? If something is hard, that's an argument for making a standard not for profit version of it, so it becomes a common good instead of platform rent seekers keeping out competition by saying it's "too hard".

How do you personally differentiate between “rent seeking” and running a business?

When it's 'done' and you keep collecting money, without adding additional value?

Like a slumlord who collects rent and does nothing to even maintain the property. Except perhaps vote down YIMBY reforms.

Re: Show HN: OpenSign – Open source alternative to DocuSign

#60

Post by kemitchell »

yodon wrote: post #2

My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that competing with DocuSign is hard because of the need to follow obscure state and National laws (many of which are defined by case law rather than published law) in order for the signatures to be legally binding. Is that the case? And if so, is there evidence OpenSign has done this kind of SME research to make sure the electronic signatures are legally binding, or is this m…

I haven't researched the law here in a while, but my general impression the last time I did was that there isn't much in the way of legal requirements for signing things digitally beyond the federal ESIGN Act, general principles of state contract law, and the smattering of very particular kinds of transactions that require processes like notarization or recording. For everyday deals between the vast majority of people and companies, it really comes down to whether what the e-sign collects and saves will be available and convincing down the line, when there's a dispute.

When dealing with government entities, you may run into policies of those entities that require use of a pre-approved service. For example: https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/regulations/current-re...

All that said, I have both implemented electronic signature in my own software and reliably recommended clients running sales ops just buy DocuSign. Familiarity and credibility can matter way more than legal or technical details...or not at all.

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