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New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

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Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#151

Post by jjav »

david-gpu wrote: post #138
red_admiral wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the root cause of children's independent mobility (or lack thereof) is parents' perception of how dangerous it would be to give kids that freedom - a perception that may or may not be strongly correlated with the real risk profile. Of course there's also a social angle, if all other parents gawp at you or even threaten to report you to social services for giving your kids more freedom, then you're most li…

> Suburban sprawl has mang negative effects but it can sometimes produce walkable areas and quiet residential roads that it's safe to play on too The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. They can't even walk to school, for goodness' sake. More importantly, most people unsurprisingly live in the most dense…

> The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. They can't even walk to school, for goodness' sake.

All of North America is quite a big area. Clearly as a generalization that's incorrect.

Here in a very suburban town in northern California one can walk around no problem. Easy walk from this neighborhood to the middle school. My office window faces the street of the school and when classes end I see hundreds of kids exit the school and they all walk off in various directions, a smaller number bike or skateboard.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#152

Post by [deleted] »

mcpackieh wrote: post #149
Kye wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local cycling advocacy group maintains a map of safe, dangerous, and risky routes based on their actual experience: https://usg.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... See all that red? That's what it's like for most people in the US, minus all the sidewalks. You might be lucky enough to live in a place like I do where there's enough green and orange and walkable shoulders to make walking and cycling…

That link centers the map on Prince Ave in Athens-Clarke County. Look that road up, it's a 4 lane road. I would never bike on that road, of course it's dangerous. If you avoid roads like that, you avoid most of the risk. It's common sense but a substantial portion of adult male cyclists obstinately refuse to apply such common sense because they'd rather die as some sort of martyr for their right of way than stay aliv…

[deleted]

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#153

Post by acdha »

david-gpu wrote: post #142
mcpackieh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting. When I was a kid I used to ride my bike 5 miles down country lanes into the nearby suburbs to play with my friends. The only rule was that I had to be back by dinner. This sort…

> That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting > They don't use reddit/etc so they aren't pumped full of hyperbolic propaganda about how dangerous walking in America is, and consequently, they're able to enjoy it just fine Here's some of the data and context that informs my opinion. I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a…

I’d also add that phones and in-car TVs are a huge distraction which didn’t used to be there. Something like 20-30% of people are driving around looking at their phones now and it’s common to see people watching videos on a phone or things like Tesla’s gigantic dashboard TVs. It seems like this is understood to be related to the rise in fatalities but the regulators don’t want to acknowledge it since they’d have to do something politically unpopular if they did.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#154

Post by jjav »

david-gpu wrote: post #142
mcpackieh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting. When I was a kid I used to ride my bike 5 miles down country lanes into the nearby suburbs to play with my friends. The only rule was that I had to be back by dinner. This sort…

> That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting > They don't use reddit/etc so they aren't pumped full of hyperbolic propaganda about how dangerous walking in America is, and consequently, they're able to enjoy it just fine Here's some of the data and context that informs my opinion. I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a…

> I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a weekly basis.

Can you expand on how exactly do you have close calls with cars ever, let alone weekly?

I don't walk as much as you but a decent amount. I've had close calls with cars... literally never. I'm having trouble picturing how that happens?

I walk on sidewalks, zero chance of close calls with cars there. For busy streets, I cross on pedestrian crossings which are protected by red lights, so no issue there either. On quiet streets I cross wherever, but only after making sure no traffic, so no issue.

So how does it happen? Are you forced to walk on the street due to lack of sidewalks? That's the only scenario I'm able to think about.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#155

Post by mharig »

Don't forget the abominable nanny states. I.e. all nation states I know. The overkill of laws and bureaucracy, that affects directly and indirectly parents and kids, must be destroyed.

Normal childhood is an evolving exploration of the environment, with growing age more and more independent and (self-)educated. If you steal that from the kids, you steal their whole childhood. And as one cannot grow up without this progress, you steal their adulthood, too.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#156

Post by david-gpu »

mcpackieh wrote: post #145
david-gpu wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting > They don't use reddit/etc so they aren't pumped full of hyperbolic propaganda about how dangerous walking in America is, and consequently, they're able to enjoy it just fine Here's some of the data and context that informs my opinion. I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a…

Most pedestrian result from pedestrians doing stupid things, like walking in the middle of the road at night wearing black while drunk. 77% of pedestrian deaths occur at night: https://www.vox.com/23784549/pedestrian-deaths-traffic-safet... 60% of pedestrian deaths occur on high-capacity urban roads: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/pedestrian_safety/i... The most dangerous roads are multilane roads e.g. high…

> Most pedestrian result from pedestrians doing stupid things like walking in the middle of the road at night wearing black while drunk

According to the local statistics I have [0], in something like 75% of car collisions the pedestrian had the right of way, and the immense majority of them occur at intersections rather than in the middle of the road.

> 60% of pedestrian deaths occur on high-capacity urban roads

And how does that compare to the amount of walking that happens on one area vs the other?

> Men account for 70% of pedestrian deaths, because men are more inclined to have a severe disregard for their own safety

What percentage of pedestrian Km are walked by men vs women?

> You're getting yourself freaked out by numbers that don't actually apply to you (or shouldn't if you have any sense.)

I am concerned for my safety because I actually walk and have noticed how often drivers don't even see me, in spite of wearing hi viz clothing. The statistics merely confirm what the risk I already noticed empirically: what sort of vehicles are dangerous to pedestrians (SUVs and pickups), where the danger occurs (busy intersections) and whose fault it is (predominantly drivers).

Finally, it there is an inherent contradiction in the simplistic narrative that people barely walk anymore "even though nothing has changed": there is far more car traffic now precisely because people barely walk anymore.

Walking doesn't kill, cars kill, so more traffic means more dangerous streets. It is rather obvious.

[0] https://www.york.ca/transportation/traffic/traffic-safety-pr...

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#157

Post by david-gpu »

mcpackieh wrote: post #149
Kye wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local cycling advocacy group maintains a map of safe, dangerous, and risky routes based on their actual experience: https://usg.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... See all that red? That's what it's like for most people in the US, minus all the sidewalks. You might be lucky enough to live in a place like I do where there's enough green and orange and walkable shoulders to make walking and cycling…

That link centers the map on Prince Ave in Athens-Clarke County. Look that road up, it's a 4 lane road. I would never bike on that road, of course it's dangerous. If you avoid roads like that, you avoid most of the risk. It's common sense but a substantial portion of adult male cyclists obstinately refuse to apply such common sense because they'd rather die as some sort of martyr for their right of way than stay aliv…

> It's common sense but a substantial portion of adult male cyclists obstinately refuse to apply such common sense because they'd rather die as some sort of martyr for their right of way than stay alive

Let's stop for a moment and reflect on these words. Notice the implausibility of what this person is saying. Observe how they place the blame squarely on the person bearing the risk, rather on the inadequate infrastructure or the pervasiveness of the mode of transportation that causes the most fatalities per Km. Not even a faint attempt at understanding what could be behind the cyclist's behavior, other than painting them as zealots.

It's a thing of beauty, in a way.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#158

Post by klyrs »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #130
klyrs wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lego still sells buckets of bricks. When we take our kid to the store, he wants the kits in pop culture themes. When he's home playing, he wants more basic blocks. Classic example of industry selling to our wants, not our needs. But good news, it's lego: the kits rarely stay assembled longer than a few days. https://www.lego.com/en-ca/themes/classic

Children being indoctrinated into brand-culture is another horror show to discuss some other time. But to your point, not only don't they get to color outside the lines, they're assimilating into the Culture of Consumption and the Culture of You-Are-The-Brands-You-Buy.

I think you missed my point about lego. My kid builds the whatever-theme set, gets some satisfaction for completing the task, and then within a few days has used the pieces to make something of entirely new. He "consumes" the brand-culture product a few times a year when he gets kits as gifts or saves up to buy them, and for the rest of the year, uses the pieces to color outside of the lines. This flexibility is pretty much unique to lego.

I've been curious watching the market after the lego patent expired. That market is dominated by rather intricate models [e.g., 1]. They aren't attached to big brands, because of the "nobody got fired for partnering with lego" effect, but the quality producers aren't doing buckets of bricks either. (On the other hand; as I write this, that Taj Mahal set is over 3k pieces for $76. The color is boring but holy heck that's a lot of (itty-bitty) parts!)

[1] https://zhegaoblock.com/shop/zhegao-ql00858-the-taj-mahal-mo...

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#159

Post by david-gpu »

jjav wrote: post #154
david-gpu wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting > They don't use reddit/etc so they aren't pumped full of hyperbolic propaganda about how dangerous walking in America is, and consequently, they're able to enjoy it just fine Here's some of the data and context that informs my opinion. I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a…

> I'm used to walking about 30-35Km a week in suburban Toronto. Close calls with cars happen on a weekly basis. Can you expand on how exactly do you have close calls with cars ever, let alone weekly? I don't walk as much as you but a decent amount. I've had close calls with cars... literally never. I'm having trouble picturing how that happens? I walk on sidewalks, zero chance of close calls with cars there. For busy…

Drivers backing from driveways without looking for pedestrians.

Drivers making right turns on red only looking left for oncoming traffic without also looking right for pedestrians.

Drivers speeding at crossings that have poor visibility due to hedges.

In winter, cars driving too fast relative to the amount of traction they actually have on icy streets.

While cycling, by far the most common problem I have is drivers passing me far too close. It only takes a very small percentage of drivers to drive carelessly to put people at serious risk of injury.

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