New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed • Hacker News Board

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#131

Post by filoleg » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

csydas wrote: post #43

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

I would largely agree with this viewpoint having grown up in the US in a medium sized city. Everything was a few miles away, public transit was present but not reliable (missing a bus meant waiting 40+ minutes for the next one), no bike lanes or paths except for one outside of the city, etc. as a child bikes were our only option to meet friends but this meant biking in traffic or on sidewalks, neither pleasant or con…

> After moving to Europe and seeing how mobile kids are without cars even, i wish i had that growing up, as just seems so much nicer to be able to meet friends and do things without needing a car or having to survive biking in traffic.

Same, but in regards to moving to NYC recently. Seeing just random groups of kids who look no older than middle schoolers riding on subway along with everyone else and just going about their day and visiting places on weekends makes me feel happy for them. Just knowing that people are able to have that kind of experiences I only could dream of having as a child. Makes me feel hopeful, knowing that at least some of the kids in get to grow up like this.

I am very confident that helicopter parenting was the biggest hindrance when it came time for me to get out into the real world. The level of preparedness that those kids growing up in NYC will have is a great advantage. Quite a few of my friends who grew up in NYC (and other places with similar cultures around public transport usage; ofc almost all of those other ones were outside of the US) definitely have that “just built different” feel to them. And that feel mostly extends to things like going to places, trying new things, independence/drive, etc., which all feel like extensions of those experiences I described above.

Not trying to say “NYC-grown people are special, and people from the rest of the US is all the same and lame,” that’s entirely false. Lots of different parts of the US with people who grew up there having their own unique culture and “built different” feel (SoCal, south-east, north-east, PNW, Texas, etc.). But in terms of that independence and just being able to go places and do things on your own from a very early age (way before you can get a driver’s permit/license in any US state), it absolutely feels like it gives people something that is very difficult to replicate otherwise.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#132

Post by throwbadubadu » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

vasco wrote: post #17

throwbadubadu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopter parenting was not (a very widespread?) thing til the age of smartphones (not meaning any causation), which started 2006, realistically for the masses 2010, or was it? Only learned or heard this term 2015-2020ish..

You did not hear about it till 10-15 years after it got mainstream then: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Helicopter+par...

Thanks for the reference - indeed no. But it is also totally not my focus/interest, so how I meant it actually there was that when that term reached me, it must have already been much spread and likely something 5-10 years after its creation ;)

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#133

Post by alanfranz » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:23 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #84

spamizbad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s part of it. But a bigger part, at least in the United States, are laws that basically require you (or another adult) to supervise your child at all times until they are 12-15 depending on the state.

This is just so weird for me as a European. We were just roaming around I guess from age 6 or 7 onwards without parents. Another factor though I think are pervasive use of smartphones. We could explore the world (80ies/90ies) and do the stupid stuff that kids do, without the risk that someone films it and shares it among peers, makes a meme about it, or whatever. I think at a certain age children's behaviors are much…

In some EU countries (Italy) it can be illegal until 14. The law didn’t change since the 40s, but since the end of the 90s judges have started considering the concept of “temporary abandonment” and suing parents who’re letting children out by themselves. Very shitty.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#134

Post by alanfranz » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #118

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

I'm a Boomer. As you hear about, we had total freedom on weekends, as long as we were home for meals. Our bikes were our only limits. But we did some crazy, reckless stuff, too. My son is five (youngest by 33 years); we don't let him do any such thing.

5yo could be a bit young. What you describe sounds fine to me starting 8/10yo.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#135

Post by gumballindie » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

> Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning?

Thats not much if an issue in Europe. Here the problem is the risk of violence and crime. Particularity in western europe, walking alone at night is risky even as an adult. For kids it would be equally risky during the day.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#136

Post by thargor90 » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:48 PM UTC

gumballindie wrote: post #135

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

> Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Thats not much if an issue in Europe. Here the problem is the risk of violence and crime. Particularity in western europe, walking alone at night is risky even as an adult. For kids it would be equally risky during the day.

Maybe I'm biased, but in my opinion crime risk is higher in the US, where you have "no-go-zones" than ok most parts of Western Europe, where this concept does not really exist.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#137

Post by Detrytus » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 3:08 PM UTC

thargor90 wrote: post #136

gumballindie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Thats not much if an issue in Europe. Here the problem is the risk of violence and crime. Particularity in western europe, walking alone at night is risky even as an adult. For kids it would be equally risky during the day.

Maybe I'm biased, but in my opinion crime risk is higher in the US, where you have "no-go-zones" than ok most parts of Western Europe, where this concept does not really exist.

No-go zones definitely exist in Western Europe, thanks to „refugees” from Africa and Middle East.

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2023/02/16/2854650/sweden...

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#138

Post by david-gpu » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 3:11 PM UTC

red_admiral wrote: post #70

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

I would say the root cause of children's independent mobility (or lack thereof) is parents' perception of how dangerous it would be to give kids that freedom - a perception that may or may not be strongly correlated with the real risk profile. Of course there's also a social angle, if all other parents gawp at you or even threaten to report you to social services for giving your kids more freedom, then you're most li…

> Suburban sprawl has mang negative effects but it can sometimes produce walkable areas and quiet residential roads that it's safe to play on too

The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. They can't even walk to school, for goodness' sake.

More importantly, most people unsurprisingly live in the most densely populated areas, not in suburbs, and traffic there is awful, making it remarkably unpleasant to loiter, not to mention that there is hardly any public space to do so.

I'm talking from the perspective of a parent living in Toronto. It's a terrible place to raise independent children, and as a consequence you never see them around, and instead they are always being chauffeured from one structured activity to the next with zero agency or self-sufficiency.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#139

Post by mcpackieh » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #138

red_admiral wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the root cause of children's independent mobility (or lack thereof) is parents' perception of how dangerous it would be to give kids that freedom - a perception that may or may not be strongly correlated with the real risk profile. Of course there's also a social angle, if all other parents gawp at you or even threaten to report you to social services for giving your kids more freedom, then you're most li…

> Suburban sprawl has mang negative effects but it can sometimes produce walkable areas and quiet residential roads that it's safe to play on too The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places. They can't even walk to school, for goodness' sake. More importantly, most people unsurprisingly live in the most dense…

> The population density in North American suburbs is too low to allow for children to comfortably walk or bike to their friend's homes, or to third places.

That's just your point of view, a point of view which results in helicopter parenting. When I was a kid I used to ride my bike 5 miles down country lanes into the nearby suburbs to play with my friends. The only rule was that I had to be back by dinner. This sort of thing remains a viable option for kids today, except their parents are too anxious to permit it.

And forget the "the roads are too dangerous now" argument. My elderly parents still walk those same roads with their dog every day. It's fine. They don't use reddit/etc so they aren't pumped full of hyperbolic propaganda about how dangerous walking in America is, and consequently, they're able to enjoy it just fine.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#140

Post by mcpackieh » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #85

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

America was no less a car culture in the 80’s and yet we had much more mobility. I was walking to school by myself as a six year old, and everyone else did. Now your parents did. It’s only the perception of risk that changed.

Both perception of risk and tolerance of risk.