New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed • Hacker News Board

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#121

Post by hiAndrewQuinn » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

southerntofu wrote: post #57

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why you're getting downvoted. There is an ocean of difference between "we're on track to fix things" and "nobody's doing anything at all", yes, but it does nobody any good to pretend we haven't even gotten on the boat yet. They'll just reach the assumption that it's 100% hopeless.

No, we haven't gotten on the boat. Who cares how dirty energy is when so much of it is wasted? Who cares if electricity comes from solar or wind, if you're still adding PFAS to any furniture and other dirty chemicals in all food supply chains. Industrial lobbies (aka "green capitalism") are trying to frame the debate as a question of clean energies, but for decades scientists have known and studied that consuming les…

Hey, I don't meet a lot of people like you in real life these days. What's your opinion of the concept of comparative advantage?

To me it's the "real" mathematical law from which capitalism spawns, but it breaks down at the extremes. If the AI paperclip maximizer can produce 10^100 paperclips a day, and I can only produce 1, it might make more sense to the maximizer to take my atoms apart and put them back together in a more optimal configuration - which of course is bad news for me. I figure an actual dissident probably has a stronger criticism than me, so I'm curious.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#122

Post by oooyay » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

> Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning?

I think this probably leaning into a bias more than anything. If this were true we'd see data going back starting from the 20s that begins to correlate to this.

What's more likely is that each generation has become successively less likely to let their kids walk to school on their own, ride bikes through town, go adventuring, etc. Combine that with that there's often limitations on spaces kids can use. I remember a lot of parking lots wouldn't let kids loiter, malls didn't want us hanging around unless we were buying, and even being in the woods by a certain time was considered suspicious.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#123

Post by ben_w » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #96

ben_w wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also been surprised by witnessing a bit of that here recently. I guess the names "last generation" and "extinction rebellion" are sincere.

Fwiw I see the extinction rebellion groups as a beacon of hope (even if they’re way more pessimistic than I am). I live in NL and as far as I can see their work is actually beginning to move the needle. You don’t go sit on a highway and block all traffic with 200 people for a month straight if you believe it’s all futile anyway.

Good point. I was focussing a bit too much on the "extinction" and not on the "rebellion" part.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#124

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

jtrn wrote: post #30

Just my personal experience working as a psychologist with kids: The kids who were overly protected had about the same amount of problems as the kids from seriously neglected homes. So when I want to make my case for NOT overprotecting kids, I say: "If you really want to damage your kid: Protect them from all adversity." I do think that the whole "suicide is increasing" trope is seldom put in context. Of course, it's…

[deleted]

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#125

Post by mhuffman » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

llamaimperative wrote: post #120

mhuffman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what it is. There were just as many cars when I was little (6 or 7 years old) but I could walk anywhere I wanted with my friends "exploring" most of the day and no one even had the thought that we would be kidnapped or murdered. Fast forward and I am not even sure about letting my 16 year old walk by himself 3 blocks down the road to the corner store. And it isn't about cars! Also, I would say that there was…

So why are you not sure about letting your 16 year old walk by himself? FYSA: There is almost certainly lower violent crime risk and higher car risk than when you were growing up.

>FYSA: There is almost certainly lower violent crime risk and higher car risk than when you were growing up.

I agree with you and that is why I said that the problem is that we hear about every single instance now and really didn't back then unless it was a "big deal" or involved someone we knew.

>So why are you not sure about letting your 16 year old walk by himself?

I am more worried about someone fucking with him and recording it for online points (upvotes, likes, whatever) than I am about him being run over by a car. Also there is a lot more very aggressive homeless people about now than when I was young (there were zero that I remember) and their unpredictability is an issue.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#126

Post by CapitalistCartr » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

rtcoms wrote: post #93

red_admiral wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the root cause of children's independent mobility (or lack thereof) is parents' perception of how dangerous it would be to give kids that freedom - a perception that may or may not be strongly correlated with the real risk profile. Of course there's also a social angle, if all other parents gawp at you or even threaten to report you to social services for giving your kids more freedom, then you're most li…

I think people having less number of kids is also makes parent care more about safety of their kids.

I've head many people express that, but I can't imagine it. I think people had different concepts of child-rearing then. Because no one was doing it differently.

But as for caring less: having a child is like cutting out a chunk of your physical heart, and using it to make this baby. The mere thought of harm to your child feels like torture. That's why us parents develop the no-sense-of-humor disadvantage regarding our kids.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#127

Post by alexanderchr » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

jokethrowaway wrote: post #94

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

In all the eu countries I've been, most cities or even local towns are car centric and I grew up in one. Walkable options I've experienced: Uk towns in the country with a large walkable area and plenty of shops (and I've heard about some spanish cities although I have not seen them) or London with frequent transport. Even though my city was definitely car centric I could roam freely as a kid wherever I wanted by bike…

> in my own home country my grandma stopped going out in the city centre because it's so dangerous

Has it gotten so dangerous that she cannot go outside or is it the perception of the danger that has changed?

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#128

Post by whstl » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #112

whstl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the implication is that "helicopter parenting" is doing it. The article posted by GP says this (and provides references): "This has been attributed to the widespread adoption of seat belts and appropriate child safety seats, the production of cars with improved safety standards, better constructed roads, graduated driver-licensing programs, and a focus on reducing teen drinking and driving"

I'm commenting on the comment up one level from mine. They said they are for adversity but then said X and Y deaths are down. BuBut might that be from a lack of adversity? (Hint: I bet it is. It makes perfect sense.)

We're talking about the same comment. "GP" means grandparent, in this case jtrn. I'm referring to the link in their own post [1]

The text in the linked article attributes the reason for having less deaths to safety standards, etc. In fact the same link mentions that people have been traveling more by car despite the reduction, not less.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048241

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#129

Post by chongli » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

I would have thought this would be obvious but I don’t see a single mention of it. The reason for helicopter parenting and a lack of independent mobile kids is the disappearance of stay at home moms. When I was a kid in the early 90’s we moved to a new neighbourhood with hundreds of families and kids my age. There were stay at home moms all over the place so everyone collectively felt safe letting kids roam during the day, especially in the afternoon when they got out of school until supper time and all day during the summer break.

What changed since then? The cost of housing shot through the roof! Now it’s extremely difficult to afford a house on a single income so stay at home moms are much rarer. This has also led to loneliness and depression for moms staying home with very young children and I believe a big part of that is due to a lack of other moms around to socialize with. So when the kids start school these moms rush back into the workforce and feel much better getting to socialize with other adults.

But all of this leads to neighbourhoods having a very different character during the day. With basically no friendly eyes around, the place seems much more dangerous and scary. Of course it also does not help that traffic has gone way up. My neighbourhood also has the (common) issue that there is more than one entrance/exit to main roads so there is a lot of through-traffic and people tend to drive way over the residential speed limits when they’re just passing through. This could be fixed by designing subdivisions as trees rooted at a main road, making through traffic impossible, but you can’t really retrofit a neighbourhood like that.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#130

Post by chiefalchemist » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:01 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #76

chiefalchemist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But we got on our bikes and went there. We'd sonetime bike 20 miles in a day...for kicks. Just to bike. There's a third place in every kid's head - and every adult's head - if we don't exercise that muscle (so to speak) we will lose it. The evidence seems to say we are losing it. The adults, and in turn the kids. Fwiw, I liken the situation to Legos. When I was a kid you bought "raw" legos and then created wha…

Lego still sells buckets of bricks. When we take our kid to the store, he wants the kits in pop culture themes. When he's home playing, he wants more basic blocks. Classic example of industry selling to our wants, not our needs. But good news, it's lego: the kits rarely stay assembled longer than a few days. https://www.lego.com/en-ca/themes/classic

Children being indoctrinated into brand-culture is another horror show to discuss some other time.

But to your point, not only don't they get to color outside the lines, they're assimilating into the Culture of Consumption and the Culture of You-Are-The-Brands-You-Buy.