New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed • Hacker News Board

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#101

Post by Symbiote » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:49 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #51

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

> Suburbia may have little traffic, but they are also devoid of "third places" where teens can be teens. When I was a teen there was no pre-made concept of "third places". We made our own. Most of the time, this meant being outside doing something active. We didn't want to be inside. We didn't want to watch TV or even binge-play video games. We created our own ways of keeping us busy, entertained, socially connected,…

A "third place" can be as little as a bench, a wall, or a piece of undeveloped or derelict land.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#102

Post by lifeisstillgood » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:52 PM UTC

jtrn wrote: post #72

Aeolun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to read this twice, because it seemed like you said that overprotective, and neglective parents have the same outcomes, but I think you are mostly trying to say that parents which are neither overprotective nor neglective have a lower rate of issues right?

I can try to elaborate, but my claims (and they are just claims), should be interpreted just as narrowly as you would when reading code, because changing even one little thing breaks the message: In the context of: "The kids I meet as a clinical psychologist": The ratio of kids "damaged" by neglect and impoverished homes, versus the kids that were struggling with anxiety or apathy caused by overprotection, was about…

Thank you for a more nuanced reply - I did get half way through something like "but surely abuse is worse than over protection" but it did not seem to add much to the discussion - thank you for actually adding to the discussion

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#103

Post by skwirl » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:54 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

> Suburbia may have little traffic, but they are also devoid of "third places" where teens can be teens.

Could you unpack this? I grew up in a small town, moved to a very walker/public transit friendly city for 10 years, and now live in a close suburb. I didn’t really see any extra third spaces geared towards teens in the city. In fact, I rarely saw kids out on the street or congregating anywhere. In the suburb I am in now, they are everywhere, biking to each others houses and hanging out in the town center.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#104

Post by skrebbel » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:55 PM UTC

southerntofu wrote: post #53

skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody? All the solar stats are up and the right, IEA expects fossil fuel consumption will soon plateau, solar panel prices keep going down faster than experts predict, seas are getting flooded with windmill parks etc etc.

What you're saying is similar to claiming fixing a leak on your faucet is gonna fix the global water crisis we are starting to face. Assuming you are in good faith, you are probably very uninformed about the state of the climate crisis, pollution crisis, and everything that comes along. We are far from the targets set by IPCC to ensure human survival, and they are one of the most optimistic organizations out there wh…

1. You’re responding to a straw man. I never said it’s all fixed and solved. I merely said that there’s a nonzero amount of people working on the solution, which even a turbo pessimist like you has got to agree with.

2. But to respond to said straw man anyway, I believe that you’re severely underestimating the single good thing about capitalism: it can cause exponential growth, in bad ways but also good. We’re now at the point where renewable energy can be cheaper than fossil fuels, and the gap is widening. Those evil nasty greedy capitalists who you despise so much are going to want in on that deal and once they do, there’s no stopping them (except for governments not giving out permits for solar parks and wind parks and so on). Investment will keep increasing, the technology will keep getting cheaper and more plentiful. There can be a huge demand and supply cycle for renewable energy spinning way out of control if only we let it.

Where I live (NL) the government is the single biggest bottleneck. They just decided against (!) allowing more solar parks on fields, they take up to a decade to OK wind parks in the North Sea etc etc. To say you want more of that bureaucratic mess, and less commercial investment in the solution, frankly, that’s insane to me.

I agree with you that capitalism caused this thing, but I believe that we’re so far out already that nothing but capitalism can move fast enough to fix it.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#105

Post by mhuffman » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:57 PM UTC

red_admiral wrote: post #70

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

I would say the root cause of children's independent mobility (or lack thereof) is parents' perception of how dangerous it would be to give kids that freedom - a perception that may or may not be strongly correlated with the real risk profile. Of course there's also a social angle, if all other parents gawp at you or even threaten to report you to social services for giving your kids more freedom, then you're most li…

This is what it is. There were just as many cars when I was little (6 or 7 years old) but I could walk anywhere I wanted with my friends "exploring" most of the day and no one even had the thought that we would be kidnapped or murdered. Fast forward and I am not even sure about letting my 16 year old walk by himself 3 blocks down the road to the corner store. And it isn't about cars! Also, I would say that there was likely just as much violence in the 70's but we didn't hear about every single instance, now we do through social media and the news so it seems pervasive. Also, I will say that nearly all the kids I know very much prefer playing video games or being on a laptop or phone rather than out walking through the tick infested woods like I used to love.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#106

Post by petemir » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 12:59 PM UTC

persponsibility wrote: post #4

I got excited when I saw something about helicopters. There are hardly ever any articles about helicopters on HN. I have a commercial helicopter license and almost 900 hours of combined helicopter and airplane flight time. If any extra rich people in the bay area or Sacramento want to buy a heli I will be your personal pilot available 24/7. Helis can go almost anywhere. I love to fly but it is hard to fly them unless…

Then you have a persponsibility to your profession/hobby and you should submit more helicopter stories to HN :).

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#107

Post by cantSpellSober » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #73

unstuck3958 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I hate cars, it's not just the cars, but also the social isolation that is a signature of urban environments.

How is it a signature of urban environments? I moved from the countryside to a city a few months ago and have already made more friends than I did in years in the country.

Interesting anecdote. It's been studied though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl#Social

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#108

Post by naveen99 » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #38

The title blames "helicopter parenting" while the actual study blames the lack of independent mobility: > Considerable research, mostly in Europe, has focused on children’s independent mobility (CIM), defined as children’s freedom to travel in their neighborhood or city without adult accompaniment Isn't that lack of independent mobility largely caused by car-centric urban planning? Children and teens can't safely roa…

Some parents / countries even limit independent television, phone, and internet use.

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#109

Post by hiAndrewQuinn » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #83

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #24

The great irony of helicopter parenting is it doesn't accomplish all that much. After you cover the First World basics (adequate nutrition, no violence in the home etc) you just don't have that much control over who your kids will eventually grow up to be, no matter how much test prep or whatever you throw at them. See also: https://www.npr.org/2011/04/22/135612560/selfish-reasons-for...

Exactly. The best you can do is provide your children what they need to allow them to become who they are, and maybe some guard rails to discourage them from the not so great parts of themselves until they can adequately self-reflect. Otherwise, the idea that parents can "mould" their children without also damaging them in some way seems unproven. Case in point, I know someone who grew up with a helicopter parent who…

I have little original input to your outstandingly well considered comment. :)

Except to say I have the unusual situation of moving from the US to Finland a few years ago partly in the hopes that I would find a better society for my children to enjoy there than what I myself experienced, and I've so far been quite happy with what I see.

One particular difference: I was constantly frustrated as a kid with living too far away from my friends to bike to their houses as a kid like I saw in the cartoons, or even to bike around just for fun. My kids here definitely will have that ability. I know - "How childish!" That's my point!

Re: New Study Says Maybe Helicopter Parenting Is Making Kids Depressed

#110

Post by twodave » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

southerntofu wrote: post #53

skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody? All the solar stats are up and the right, IEA expects fossil fuel consumption will soon plateau, solar panel prices keep going down faster than experts predict, seas are getting flooded with windmill parks etc etc.

What you're saying is similar to claiming fixing a leak on your faucet is gonna fix the global water crisis we are starting to face. Assuming you are in good faith, you are probably very uninformed about the state of the climate crisis, pollution crisis, and everything that comes along. We are far from the targets set by IPCC to ensure human survival, and they are one of the most optimistic organizations out there wh…

Oh, well if _that’s_ all it’ll take… you may as well stop talking or worrying about it and just enjoy your life since nothing short of a global extinction event will make a dent.