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Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

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Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do people have ideas or do ideas have people?" might have something to do with the phenomenon of different humans preferring different labels for the same thing.

There are different implications though. One implies there's some meaning while the other does not.

They both have meaning, a distinction is the degree to which free will (or, System 2 in Thinking Fast and Slow) is in play. But now we have two problems!

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do people have ideas or do ideas have people?" might have something to do with the phenomenon of different humans preferring different labels for the same thing.

This is from Jung right? I've always been fascinated by his teachings, especially the collective unconscious. I'm just gonna leave a couple related quotes and ideas down here cause I want to. Dostoevsky made observations like this, too. "It was not you who ate the idea, but the idea that ate you" "Men need to bow down to something; whether another man or an idea.” I think Ernest Becker explored similar ideas in The D…

Yep...the problem with humans has been pretty well understood for ages, hopefully we can get over this all science and only science phase and utilize some of this valuable knowledge before we kill ourselves.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#273
post #77

I'm more interested in the effects of Ketamine on anxiety. I know that it's not as effective, but haven't seen any statistics specifically related to anxiety. I have gotten my Ketamine through Mindbloom, and just need to schedule my treatment and follow up dates. My depression effects are due to my suffering through anxiety for over 20 years (started in 1999). My anxiety also seemed to correlate with 2 bad trips from…

How does Mindbloom program work? From their website, it appears they send Ketamine pills. How different is the experience from IV administered doses?

I apologize for the late reply, I hope you end up seeing this. The Mindbloom program isn't as powerful as getting an IV or intramuscular injection (IM). I believe this is because you aren't hospitalized for the treatment. I've received my Ketamine pills, along with a face mask, a blood pressure monitor, and a journal to record my thoughts so that I can speak to a clinician the following day, and learn to integrate what I came across into a therapeutic way. The pills are definitely the least effective method, but the only method that can be done in an outpatient setting. You let the pill dissolve between your cheek and gum for 7 minutes, then you spit out the saliva and rinse your mouth. After that, you lie down with the face mask, and have a sitter nearby that can monitor you.

From my understanding, the experience is very close to DXM (dextromethorphan) from cough syrup, like Robitussin DM. It's a disassociative anesthetic, so my understanding is that you will have feelings and thoughts arise, but be able to examine them "from a distance", as far as being disconnected from them and able to be more objective. I'm really excited to try it, I've had anxiety since 1999, have been given so many different drugs, and have been through biofeedback, cognitive therapy, as well as more new age treatments like meditation. If this doesn't work for me, my next step is probably microdosing psilocybin, but that carries a little bit of legal risk right now (where I'm located).

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually take a benzo only as needed, and try not to take it if I can absolutely help it. I was told that taking a benzo(diazepine) the day of a Ketamine treatment actually cancels out the positive effect of the Ketamine. I believe it as well. Benzodiazepines definitely have a beneficial effect, but if you are trying to get through a psychedelic crisis, or even a horrible panic attack, taking it will 100% negate an…

It would be administered in the IV immediately before a Ketamine IV. It does not cancel out the effect, but you might fall asleep during treatment which isn’t as fun.

Benzodiazepines actually affect the recall of the Ketamine experience. My clinician stated that taking benzos with Ketamine reduce the effectiveness by a large margin. I can believe this, because taking a benzo completely changes your feelings about anxiety and your self image, which seem to be important in gaining insight from a Ketamine experience. Of course, I am not a scientist or psychotherapist, so this is just what has been repeated to me.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#275
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Mindbloom program work? From their website, it appears they send Ketamine pills. How different is the experience from IV administered doses?

I apologize for the late reply, I hope you end up seeing this. The Mindbloom program isn't as powerful as getting an IV or intramuscular injection (IM). I believe this is because you aren't hospitalized for the treatment. I've received my Ketamine pills, along with a face mask, a blood pressure monitor, and a journal to record my thoughts so that I can speak to a clinician the following day, and learn to integrate wh…

Thank you, this is really interesting. Why do you think one would want a face mask?

Ketamine was the only drug I tried (administered during a surgery in my teens) that made a huge impression on me. Everything else I tried later was frankly a disappointment.

Re: Ketamine's effect on depression may hinge on hope

#276
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize for the late reply, I hope you end up seeing this. The Mindbloom program isn't as powerful as getting an IV or intramuscular injection (IM). I believe this is because you aren't hospitalized for the treatment. I've received my Ketamine pills, along with a face mask, a blood pressure monitor, and a journal to record my thoughts so that I can speak to a clinician the following day, and learn to integrate wh…

Thank you, this is really interesting. Why do you think one would want a face mask? Ketamine was the only drug I tried (administered during a surgery in my teens) that made a huge impression on me. Everything else I tried later was frankly a disappointment.

I believe the face mask is just to keep stray light from leaking through your eyelids, possibly affecting your ability to solely focus on your experience.
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