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Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

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Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#71

Post by samus »

Aurornis wrote: post #58

The presence of antibodies isn’t as big of a signal as we once thought. There have been several companies developing antibody tests for various things, including your body’s own natural receptors. They have been appealing to people with chronic illnesses as an explanation for unexplained symptoms. For example, implying that if their tests show antibodies to certain receptors then that is a diagnostic clue. Then some…

There are two considerable points here:

1) this is a simple molecule, not an organism that can react to the threat. As you said, it would be interesting to be evaluate whether the antibodies actually have an effect, but they probably have, else they likely wouldn't have been detected at all.

2) the blood samples were taken from patients. It would be interesting to evaluate blood samples from the population at large.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#72

Post by thrwwyunpopular »

kragen wrote: post #30
idiotsecant wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is the widespread availability of cheap calorie dense food and a few hundred million years of evolution devoted to making biological machines designed to consume as much calorie dense food as they could find.

olive oil has been widely available for the last 7000 years, butter for ten thousand years, but the obesity pandemic is only 50 years old

False equivalence. This doesn't help advance the debate. The amount of olive oil in the average diet is minuscule relative to the amounts of sugar or palm oil.

Nuance is important.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#73

Post by cyclever »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #35
kragen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

olive oil has been widely available for the last 7000 years, butter for ten thousand years, but the obesity pandemic is only 50 years old

But they were relatively expensive and scarce. And no-one is getting fat by drinking litres of olive oil or eating tubs of butter. It's a combination of more high-calorie convenience foods and a more sedentary lifestyle than even just 50 years ago.

Right, no one is getting fat because of fat! It's the catbohydrates that make you fat! And humans eat butter and olive oil since climbing down the trees. Eating fruit and cane is a world domination scheme by the oppressing caste.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#74

Post by kragen »

Metacelsus wrote: post #64
kragen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no 'glycol' just means an organic molecule with two hydroxyl groups peg is a polymer of ethylene glycol (which monomer is, incidentally, deadly, while peg is generally considered nontoxic) certainly some functional groups can be intrinsically toxic (organotin compounds come to mind) but you have hydroxyl groups on damn near every molecule in your body, including all the water molecules

> peg doesn't have two hydroxyl groups, it has thousands, because it's not a glycol, it's a polymer of ethylene glycol PEG does have exactly two hydroxyl groups: one at each end of the polymer chain. The rest are ether linkages, not hydroxyl. You're right that PEG is quite different from ethylene glycol monomer, but be careful accusing people of being ignorant when your own chemistry knowledge is not the best.

you are of course correct, so i have removed that assertion

my own level of ignorance is life-threatening in a life form that is literally made out of molecules

i appreciate your efforts to ameliorate that predicament ;)

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#75

Post by DoingIsLearning »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #63
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is something you already know but nevertheless as long as you are able to relax and remain calm throughout the procedure nobody should stop you from choosing to just take some benzos and do some breathing exercises throughout the procedure. (Not a doctor but I worked briefly on endoscope tech in the past) The use of propofol depends greatly on their protocol and the country you are in, but it is not some…

One time in Korea they tried an endoscopy on me completely raw. I think they sprayed my throat first. This wasn’t olden times, it was just a decade back. I promptly gagged, pulled out the scope and vomited.

For clarity colonoscopy (which is what GP described) is also with an endoscope but through the other end.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#76

Post by kragen »

4death4 wrote: post #57
kragen wrote: post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

Just speaking from personal experience, I’m fat because I eat cake and ice cream every day and walk 6,000 steps on a good day. I don’t really see a mystery here tbh.

and there are many people like you! yet a century ago you could have eaten cake every day if you wanted, though not ice cream, and in many places, many people already had office jobs to which they could take the subway. why did your counterparts in new york not have an obesity epidemic? somehow they didn't want to eat cake instead of food, and they felt restless if they had so little activity

clearly diet and exercise are the proximate causes of obesity, but what has so deranged our diet and exercise?

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#78

Post by galangalalgol »

Pigalowda wrote: post #45
kragen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is substantial, but not convincing, evidence that much current obesity is due to an infectious etiology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectobesity the cure you suggest fails on 95% of obese people, though like many pseudoscientific quack cures, it does appear to work at first, and actually does work in a few cases the implied etiology doesn't hold up to the most casual critical thinking: resting and eating hav…

A very small proportion of obesity is secondary to hypothyroidism which isn’t supplemented with synthroid/thyroid hormone, hypothalamic/pituitary axis dysfunction, adrenal corticotroph, or exogenous corticosteroids. If viruses are blamed its going to be pseudoscience to sell pills. An accepted rule of nutrition/diet/physiology is that an excess of 3,500 calories will lead to a gain of 1lb of fat. The basal metabolic…

Ozempic was also shown to modify BMR even after controlling for the change in body mass. It is doing something else in addition to aversion therapy. Probably several somethings else, not all of which we understand or would want.

But again the calorie counting is an oversimplication as mentioned in other posts. Elegantly simple, and so attractive. Caloric restriction will always work in the absence of the endocrine issues you mention. And in the absence of other issues we haven't discovered or don't understand yet. The vast majority of hypothyroidism is due to autoimmune related inflammation (Hashimoto's). The normal cause for that is childbirth related immune response. But plenty of other autoimmune diseases are virally triggered, quite possibly even diabetes. Combining that with the way gut biome impacts appetite and processing efficiency, we can't just pretend telling people to eat less and better and exercise will matter no matter how hard we work on education. Ozempic is a bandaid that rich people will use and will slow down discovery of all the multitudes of ways modern life has conspired to cause obesity.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#79

Post by flextheruler »

thrwwyunpopular wrote: post #66
4death4 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just speaking from personal experience, I’m fat because I eat cake and ice cream every day and walk 6,000 steps on a good day. I don’t really see a mystery here tbh.

The prevalence of sugar in modern diets along with how ludicrously industrialized food has become, particularly in America, is likely still the main cause for obesity rates. People point out all these other secondary factors but we should really focus on the 80%, the big ticket item. It's damn near impossible to find nutritiously acceptable breakfast, lunch and dinner choices near the office in big cities in America.…

What city do you live in? There is a huge array of healthy low calorie options near me all the way to pure vegetarian/vegan places.

There is a ridiculously strong correlation between sedentariness and obesity. We our more sedentary than ever before and then remote work/school increased it again.

I believe a person struggling with weight is basically determined in their childhood. Only in childhood will the body build new fat cells and the number of fat cells determines hormonal production of leptin and others which trigger hunger cues for the rest of life. Basically a fat child will permanently be hungrier for the rest of their life due to increased numbers of fat cells. If you’re a skinny and active kid you will permanently have an easier time to keep weight off. And before you blame food again sedentariness has increased among children immensely as well.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#80

Post by kragen »

phil21 wrote: post #39
kragen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

olive oil has been widely available for the last 7000 years, butter for ten thousand years, but the obesity pandemic is only 50 years old

Both of those until very recently were extremely expensive to the point of luxury for many, as well as much more difficult to effectively use a lot of cheap and easily. Effectively zero people are chugging bottles of Olive Oil they buy from the corner store. There just is no comparison whatsoever to modern processed foods set for immediate consumption and tuned for maximum taste and pleasure response. Edit: to refute…

if you're from the usa, your grandparents could buy corn oil and margarine, and didn't see them as luxury items; but their generation didn't make a diet out of it

conventional convenience foods like mcdonalds hamburgers, coca-cola, and twinkies are about 3, 0.5, and 4 kilocalories per gram; olive oil and butter are 9. healthier foods like whole-wheat bread, eggs, eggplant, and fatty steak are 2.5, 1.5, 0.4, and 3.5 calories per gram. calorie density is not what makes eggs healthier than coca-cola

your hypothesis would also imply that people on low-carbohydrate diets consisting of fatty meat and cheese would rapidly gain weight, but instead they lose it

in case it wasn't clear, i think the explanation that the obesity pandemic is due to a sudden decline in willpower is unlikely

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