The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy • Hacker News Board

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#121

Post by thrwwyunpopular » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:13 PM UTC

losteric wrote: post #104

kogus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I don't think you need a human connection to have good content. The encyclopedia Brittanica didn't establish a human connection, but it was a valuable resource. An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver. So we get clickbait headlines a…

> An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver > To be fair, most web users are happy with the arrangement - they get an endless feed of free tiny doses of dopamine while they avoid the real responsibilities of life. I'd argue it's mostly the latter. Most creators produce content…

The harsh reality is that any conversation about what "people" want needs to factor in the fact that half of "the people" are dumber, more simpler-minded than the average person.

No, you and I don't want to look at staged animal rescues or celebrity drama... but if the average person does, then so does at least 50% of the population. We're in the minority.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#122

Post by huevosabio » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:15 PM UTC

kogus wrote: post #43

the_snooze wrote: post #26

>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale . It's valuable precisel…

I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I don't think you need a human connection to have good content. The encyclopedia Brittanica didn't establish a human connection, but it was a valuable resource. An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver. So we get clickbait headlines a…

I think this is true in the individual level, but less so in the ecosystem as a whole.

I can see how a YouTube channel gets attention-optimized to hell, but then I am able to find content that is genuinely amazing that have survived the temptation to over-optimize for engagement.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#123

Post by tensor » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:16 PM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #45

People aren't authentic when they are talking to everyone on the planet at once, unless they are incredibly naive. They are authentic talking to their friends, or family, in private conversations. A lot of people were naive in the early days and it made for amusing conversation, not any longer and these platforms are just about brand management / advertising now.

People are not authentic talking to friends or family in private either. The entire authenticity cult is a creation of modern media and is as much manufactured as "fitting in" is.

In fact, I'd say that it's GOOD that people craft their image, no one genuinely wants to hear your unfiltered thoughts. Usually people who do that are considered socially maladjusted.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#124

Post by DudeOpotomus » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:16 PM UTC

Everything boils down to incentives. The idea that people are paid to grab attention is flawed. It has created a cyclone of everyone chasing what's hot while true creators, not the namesake, but people who actually create new stuff, are spun out to the farthest reaches.

Like most things in life. The very best ideas and things are hidden. In someways that's good, but not if those people suffer in silence. If a great work is never read nor seen, is it great?

Advertising, specifically adtech has destroyed the world. It perverted every media and medium. I watch with great anticipation of its impending reversal. We will find ourselves back at a contextual and demographic association sooner than most know.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#125

Post by Kye » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

pif wrote: post #81

Enginerrrd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ugly truth of it is, just like there's a noticeable difference between shopping at costco and shopping at walmart (because of the annual fee at costco), there's just some people that are going to have an undesirable influence on your community. The temptation to try and rope in those extra users is often irresistible but to get them you have to tank your content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.…

> difference between shopping at costco and shopping at walmart Could someone please explain to me what is implied here? I've been to the USA only once, and I didn't visit neither a Costco nor a Walmart. The only difference I could point to between them, is that no "Costco people" phenomenon exists on YouTube. Sincere thanks in advance!

Walmarts are full of broke, burnt out people clinging to survival, so it's like bumper cars with buggies due to already stretched attention spans. If you can afford Costco and have a place to put the bulk savings, you're probably a little better off and less harried.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#126

Post by jmyeet » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

A lot of time when I hear people complain about an "inauthentic experience" in social media, what they really mean is "no one really cares what I say". Personally, I've never seen the appeal of Twitter. It's always been incredibly niche, particularly if you exclude all the people who simply use it for notifications ("I'm now live!").

Here's what I think (normal) people are starting to figure out: a lot of tech companies like to hide behind the Algorithm Defense, which is "We don't curate, suppress or promote anything, it's all The Algorithm [tm]". Google has effectively used this defense for search ranking for decades now.

Thing is, people still decide what goes into that algorithm. You see this in post-Elon Twitter with what I like to call the Blue Check Reply Guys, annoying people who couldn't build an organic audience so pay $8 to be at the top of every reply with their inane drivel. You see this on Tiktok where just mentioning "Palestine", let alone using a related tag, (allegedly) reduces your audience.

People who think they're having an authentic experience on social media I think are fooling themselves and probably living in a bubble. Like probably everyone, they want validation. Twitter in particular is the platform for snark and spouting popular opinions.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#127

Post by jfengel » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

kogus wrote: post #43

the_snooze wrote: post #26

>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale . It's valuable precisel…

I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I don't think you need a human connection to have good content. The encyclopedia Brittanica didn't establish a human connection, but it was a valuable resource. An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver. So we get clickbait headlines a…

The weird part to me is that the ad dollars have to lead to some sort of connection. The ad buyers need you to want something.

Sure, some of it is just scams and politics (yeah yeah the jokes write themselves). But at core there are people who have an actual thing to sell, and people who want to buy things. It may not make them happy in the end but that's up to each of us to figure out for ourselves, and the philosophers.

Somewhere under all that attention is a service or a product. In the end we've got to learn which ones matter to us. That's what the attention is supposed to be for.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#128

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

jklinger410 wrote: post #113

the_snooze wrote: post #26

>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale . It's valuable precisel…

> as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? This is a well observed trend where appealing to a broader audience makes the content worse. People, as individuals, are unique and therefore interesting. Appealing to more than one person relies on what those people have in common. The more people you try to reach, the less in common they all have. If the content is going to speak to w…

> Real culture is hard, not reproducible, not predictable, and initially unprofitable. So it is not valued by capitalism. It happens despite the economy, not because of it.

Capitalism is just people making agreements with each other in a legal framework. It 100% does not preclude charitable work, volunteerism, or art. It also doesn't value anything; it's a system where, as much as possible, people can do what they want and pay for things they deem to be valuable.

> If you don't like it and want it to stop, then you want more socialist policies.

This is true. Pain creates wonderful art.

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#129

Post by n0t3ths81 » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

jklinger410 wrote: post #113

the_snooze wrote: post #26

>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale . It's valuable precisel…

> as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? This is a well observed trend where appealing to a broader audience makes the content worse. People, as individuals, are unique and therefore interesting. Appealing to more than one person relies on what those people have in common. The more people you try to reach, the less in common they all have. If the content is going to speak to w…

[dead]

Re: The slow death of authenticity in an attention economy

#130

Post by skmurphy » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

the_snooze wrote: post #26

>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here? It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale . It's valuable precisel…

"Human connection does not scale" is succinctly expressed insight. You identify the follow on implications and what can be done to preserve it. Thank you.