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Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

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Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#21
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PEG is not plastics...

It is a petroleum-based polymer, tomato vs tomato...

many grades of peg are liquid at room temperature; the others are highly water-soluble. you've probably never seen an object manufactured from peg in your life. that's why people don't normally call it 'plastic'

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#22

When I lived in Germany, I learned that one interesting, cultural aspect is that they don’t drink nearly as much tapwater as in America. This means everyone buys water in plastic containers at the grocery store, all this plastic is PET-based, and PEG is always present in small quantities in that water (because water is slightly acidic, and acids disassociate the PET molecule).

As a German I find that to be a pretty wild generalization, especially comparing it to the US where tap water quality varies massively (Oregon vs say Michigan (Flint...)). German tap water tends to be quite good. I live in Berlin, where tap water is excellent (albeit with a lot of minerals/calcium). The vast majority of people I know drink tap water, sometimes filtered, sometimes with CO2 added, but tap water nontheless.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#23
post #17

I wonder if the same also happens with Propylene glycol (PG)? Seems to be widely used in cosmetics as well but has a different molecular structure.

no

'glycol' just means an organic molecule with two hydroxyl groups

peg is a polymer of ethylene glycol (which monomer is, incidentally, deadly, while peg is generally considered nontoxic)

certainly some functional groups can be intrinsically toxic (organotin compounds come to mind) but you have hydroxyl groups on damn near every molecule in your body, including all the water molecules

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#24

When I lived in Germany, I learned that one interesting, cultural aspect is that they don’t drink nearly as much tapwater as in America. This means everyone buys water in plastic containers at the grocery store, all this plastic is PET-based, and PEG is always present in small quantities in that water (because water is slightly acidic, and acids disassociate the PET molecule).

The majority of Germans drinks tap water daily or almost daily: https://www.bwb.de/de/assets/downloads/twis-report.pdf

I think "everyone buys water in plastic containers" is a bit of an overestimate.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#25

When I lived in Germany, I learned that one interesting, cultural aspect is that they don’t drink nearly as much tapwater as in America. This means everyone buys water in plastic containers at the grocery store, all this plastic is PET-based, and PEG is always present in small quantities in that water (because water is slightly acidic, and acids disassociate the PET molecule).

It's funny how impressions can differ, because my impression as a German visiting the US a couple times was that people there have an aversion towards drinking tap water.

That being said, the takeaway from this study shouldn't be that this is peculiar for the German population, it just happens that the Max Planck Institute for Polymers is located in Germany.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#26
post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

how does continuous low-level inflammation cause obesity?

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#27
post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

I think the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is the widespread availability of cheap calorie dense food and a few hundred million years of evolution devoted to making biological machines designed to consume as much calorie dense food as they could find.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#28
post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

how does continuous low-level inflammation cause obesity?

it's a very interesting question

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflammation#Interleukins_and_... is probably a good place to start reading

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#29
post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

It doesn't look like obesity is infectious, so calling it a pandemic doesn't seem appropriate. The cure is eating less and exercising more. Many have done it.

Re: Study shows antibodies against PEG in 83% of the German population

#30
post #19

i guess they'll just have to use lalr(1) more seriously, i wonder if something like this is a cause of the obesity pandemic: an unrecognized widespread immune response to a novel food additive provoking continuous low-level inflammation though probably not peg itself; e1521 is not in that many foods, not like xanthan gum or nanoparticles of titanium dioxide

I think the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is the widespread availability of cheap calorie dense food and a few hundred million years of evolution devoted to making biological machines designed to consume as much calorie dense food as they could find.

olive oil has been widely available for the last 7000 years, butter for ten thousand years, but the obesity pandemic is only 50 years old
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