We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets • Hacker News Board

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#21

Post by MBCook » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:39 AM UTC

Reevaluating to build public trust would have been fixing things when their cars kept blocking the street or preventing ambulances from getting where they need to go.

NOT waiting until you ran over over someone who was hit by a car and then dragging them along the pavement, followed by lying to investigators about it.

You don’t get trust back after that.

How much do you want to bet all the other cities were suddenly grilling them and they just thought they were about to lose the other licenses as well and this would look better than waiting until they were actually kicked out?

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#22

Post by uejfiweun » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:39 AM UTC

Are self-driving cars actually going to be lucrative?

Yes, the progress is promising, but it seems to me (as an observer that knows nothing) that things aren't very scalable.

- It seems like every city pretty much requires a custom-tailored solution, and they still haven't solved the "downtown" problem.

- It's far more of a regulatory minefield than a pure software business model.

- The cars themselves, in addition to being expensive, well, cars, also require even more specialized equipment like lidars and infrared cameras.

- I imagine that if real disruption starts to occur these cars are going to be easy targets for vandals and disgruntled transportation employees.

- IIUC the leader, Waymo, does all the computation in the cloud, so you're hosed if the network goes down.

I'm rooting for self driving cars as much as anyone, but it seems like an uphill battle to achieve a "fleet of robotaxis" style approach... seems more likely to me that Waymo will eventually license the tech to automakers for use in personal vehicles.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#23

Post by kevindamm » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:39 AM UTC

polalavik wrote: post #17

xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

A single driverless car can substitute for multiple car owners' vehicles if a schedule can be worked out. Long haul freight can have a potentially more efficient alternative to human truck drivers. Accident rates for a horse-level AI are significantly lower than the typical distracted human. There are reasons to pursue this problem.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#24

Post by Shawnj2 » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

If it’s critical enough of a bug that they had to suspend testing immediately then they probably shouldn’t have been doing the testing in the first place

That too

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#25

Post by jwolfe » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

polalavik wrote: post #17

xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

Over a million people die annually from traffic accidents.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#26

Post by hprotagonist » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #18

ShamelessC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who doesn't live in silicon valley or in any major cities, it's always strange to see HN users talk about these companies as though they already have widespread recognition. I've never seen a car once in my life, and if I did I would probably be fairly cautious around it. I imagine a large portion of Americans would feel similarly.

> I've never seen a car once in my life Your forgotten word makes this comment seem like it’s from the early 1800s ;) That said, as a German, I expect to see driverless cars in 2030 the earliest ;)

1200s.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/car

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#27

Post by jdlshore » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

Two things that make this a potential culture issue, as I see it:

1. Software that operates heavy machinery is life-critical. There’s no such thing as “just a bug” in that environment. It requires a different level of care.

2. As I understand it, Cruise was shut down in San Francisco not because of the software error, but because the company didn’t disclose the full details of what happened with the pedestrian that was hit. That’s very much a cultural problem.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#28

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

[deleted]

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#29

Post by aryamaan » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

what bugs are we talking about?

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#30

Post by roseway4 » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

It is alleged that Cruise neglected to provide the DMV with information regarding an incident that led to a pedestrian being badly injured. Other reports claim they willfully withheld information. It appears to be more than a “software bug.”