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How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

chrisstucchio.com

21–30 of 128 posts

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#21
I left a PhD program a few years back (technically graduated, but I don't think of it that way). A year or so before I did, I remember very clearly being out to drinks with my professor and fellow students, and mentioning that I had no intention to continue a career in academia. In fact at the time I was thinking of translation (I've since drifted to web development, but languages and translation are still central to much of what I do).

The response (in Japanese, but I'll translate) was "what a waste" ("mottainai"). What a waste. All that potential I had, and now I was just going to waste it on "work", like everyone else. No doubt my supervisor, who said it with a genuinely disappointed look (echoed with a nod by a fellow student and friend sitting beside me, which only made it worse) meant it in a positive sense, but I never forgave him for it. It stuck with me, somewhere very deep inside me, first as something confusing and distressing, then as a kind of symbol, something emblematic of everything that is wrong with academia.

To anyone who is hesitating: if your only reason for staying in academia is the fear of what will happen if you leave, then it is time to leave.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#22

> Also, if your degree is in English, the best I can do is point you here (link to Starbucks job page). I know it's supposed to be funny (i.e., it's "just a joke") and I grant I may be sensitive since I have a BA in Comparative Literature (a graduating class of 1 in my major) and a PhD in Classics, but this came across as completely obnoxious and unnecessary. Don't know anything about Humanities? Fine. Don't talk abo…

Slightly offtopic question: I re-read Odysseus a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about the name Telemachos. My rudimentary knowledge of etymology tells me that he's a "far away man". Given your username and the fact that you have a PhD in classics: what's your opinion of how the name/etymology of the character relates to the role that Telemachos plays in the epic?

Obviously he's far away when Odysseus is out and about, but he's quite present in the beginning and end. It seems like there's more to it than that.

(For those who don't remember / haven't read it, Telemachos is the only son of Odysseus in the epic. He's pretty much a younger copy of Odysseus.)

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#23
Seriously? Learn web development? No one hires PhDs for web development skills. It is only useful if you want to be a pure software developer, not a quant or a data scientist. It might even be a negative when applying for some jobs.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#24

I recently left my PhD program too (I'm "mastering out" in local parlance ;)) and what this post doesn't address is what I found to be the hardest part: making a decision to leave a world where people that leave are construed as a failures (note: contrary to my expectation, I've only received support in my decision from my awesome and anomalous department.) (Also, I should note that I left a software industry job to…

This is funny to me. I decided I was definitely leaving during an internship and most of my coworkers and friends thought it was a great idea. My advisor and closest academic colleagues were supportive as well.

I joked that the PhD program was like a girlfriend no one liked, but they waited to say so until I quit.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#25
> 100 passengers have queued up to board a plane, and are lined up in the order of the seats on the plane (n=1..100). However, the first person lost his ticket and selects a random seat. The remaining passengers will occupy their assigned seat if it is available, or a random seat otherwise. What is the probability that passenger 100 sits in seat 100?

It really worried me that I couldn't figure out how to work that out. I thought about what I'd do in an interview if I was asked that, and I figured (if I had my laptop) I'd write some code. So I gave myself 5 minutes by the clock, and wrote a little python program that simulated the situation and counted the results. I ran 5 million iterations, which with pypy took 59 seconds. The number I got out was a 97.335% chance of person 100 being in seat 100.

I have 3 questions:

1. Is that the right answer?

2. How are you supposed to work it out?

3. Would working it out the proper way take less than 6 minutes?

Edit: It seemed like too high a number, which is part of why I asked. I looked through my code and found a dumb error - I forgot to remove the seat from the 'available' list if the person finds their assigned seat. That's what happens when you write code on a 5 minute deadline. Now I'm consistently getting 49.9%, which seems more reasonable.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#26

> Also, if your degree is in English, the best I can do is point you here (link to Starbucks job page). I know it's supposed to be funny (i.e., it's "just a joke") and I grant I may be sensitive since I have a BA in Comparative Literature (a graduating class of 1 in my major) and a PhD in Classics, but this came across as completely obnoxious and unnecessary. Don't know anything about Humanities? Fine. Don't talk abo…

[deleted]

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#27
post #22

> Also, if your degree is in English, the best I can do is point you here (link to Starbucks job page). I know it's supposed to be funny (i.e., it's "just a joke") and I grant I may be sensitive since I have a BA in Comparative Literature (a graduating class of 1 in my major) and a PhD in Classics, but this came across as completely obnoxious and unnecessary. Don't know anything about Humanities? Fine. Don't talk abo…

Slightly offtopic question: I re-read Odysseus a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about the name Telemachos. My rudimentary knowledge of etymology tells me that he's a "far away man". Given your username and the fact that you have a PhD in classics: what's your opinion of how the name/etymology of the character relates to the role that Telemachos plays in the epic? Obviously he's far away when Odysseus is out an…

tele = far

machos = battle

Perhaps it means that he was far away from the battle or it means that he battles from afar? The latter would seem a better fit for Odysseus himself.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#29
post #22

> Also, if your degree is in English, the best I can do is point you here (link to Starbucks job page). I know it's supposed to be funny (i.e., it's "just a joke") and I grant I may be sensitive since I have a BA in Comparative Literature (a graduating class of 1 in my major) and a PhD in Classics, but this came across as completely obnoxious and unnecessary. Don't know anything about Humanities? Fine. Don't talk abo…

Slightly offtopic question: I re-read Odysseus a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about the name Telemachos. My rudimentary knowledge of etymology tells me that he's a "far away man". Given your username and the fact that you have a PhD in classics: what's your opinion of how the name/etymology of the character relates to the role that Telemachos plays in the epic? Obviously he's far away when Odysseus is out an…

His name is usually taken to be a nod to his father's skill with a bow. You're right about the 'far' part, but the second part I think is different (the Ancient Greek word for man is anēr, andros - the root being andr):

tele means "far away" or "from afar" (think 'television' it sees things from afar).

The mach root comes from a word meaning "fight".

So "Telemachos" is a "far-fighter", i.e. a bowman. Odysseus is primarily famous as an archer (as opposed to Achilles who is primarily famous for fighting with a spear).

I think that etymology is pretty well accepted. It certainly was when I was a student. I'm not sure that there's a completely accepted explanation for how the name fits into his place in the epic. Here's my take: Telemachus must prove that he can grow up into as good a man as his father. He does that throughout the poem, as he goes from being a very immature teenager to eventually fighting alongside his father at the end of the poem. Before the trial of the bow (when all the suitors attempt to string Odysseus's bow and win Penelope), Telemachus tries to string his father's bow himself. Here's a translation of the scene I have in mind by Samuel Butler[1]. The 'he' refers to Telemachus:

> As he spoke he sprang from his seat, threw his crimson cloak from him, and took his sword from his shoulder. First he set the axes in a row, in a long groove which he had dug for them, and had made straight by line. Then he stamped the earth tight round them, and everyone was surprised when they saw him set up so orderly, though he had never seen anything of the kind before. This done, he went on to the pavement to make trial of the bow; thrice did he tug at it, trying with all his might to draw the string, and thrice he had to leave off, though he had hoped to string the bow and shoot through the iron. He was trying for the fourth time, and would have strung it had not Ulysses made a sign to check him in spite of all his eagerness. So he said:

> "Alas! I shall either be always feeble and of no prowess, or I am too young, and have not yet reached my full strength so as to be able to hold my own if any one attacks me. You others, therefore, who are stronger than I, make trial of the bow and get this contest settled."

In that scene, I've always thought that Telemachus proves he is capable of becoming his father (he might have strung the bow), but he is willing - as a good son should - to yield to his father while he is still alive. At the same time, he also proves he is a good liar - like his father - since the little speech he gives at the end helps to encourage the suitors and think he is nobody to fear. When the fighting begins, however, he proves otherwise and he helps his father kill the suitors.

[1]: http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/odyssey.21.xxi.html

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#30

I recently left my PhD program too (I'm "mastering out" in local parlance ;)) and what this post doesn't address is what I found to be the hardest part: making a decision to leave a world where people that leave are construed as a failures (note: contrary to my expectation, I've only received support in my decision from my awesome and anomalous department.) (Also, I should note that I left a software industry job to…

Part of that's due to incentives; like a corporation, universities don't primarily think institutionally about what's in your best interests. Hence you also rarely find companies happy that you left to take a better job, though you might find some individual managers who're supportive of a decision to move on.

For universities, people who leave PhD programs earlyish are a particular negative, because at least in the US, typically universities subsidize the masters portion of your education if you enter into a PhD program, out of research funds or departmental TA funds, whereas students who enter explicitly intending to get a masters have to pay tuition, and don't usually receive a stipend (though a few can land TAships). What they expect in return is that later in your PhD you'll publish a bunch of papers which bring them some prestige, help out on grant applications, etc. So if you enter a PhD program, stay for 2 years for the coursework/masters portion, and then leave, from the university's perspective it's like you're really a masters student who somehow tricked them into treating you as a PhD student for 2 years, and got away without paying tuition--- but without staying long enough to produce the expected ROI in publications. It also hurts the graduation-rate statistics in some ways of calculating them, and as education is getting more metrics/assessment heavy, that can matter too.

At least, that's from an administrative/bean-counter perspective; from a cultural perspective among researchers themselves, attitudes are more varied and have more complicated reasons. In areas where industrial partnerships are important, I think the reaction is often fairly positive, because a former student now working at a large company is a good connection for a lab to have.

Some of the negative reactions I think are just due to people not conceiving that other people could have different preferences/aptitudes. You can also find the reverse, where e.g. the attitudes if you left a startup after two years to pursue grad school can range from confused to "you're throwing away a golden opportunity" type views, to outright derisive ("couldn't make it in the real world"). Unfortunately I think it's pretty common for people to be pretty invested in what they did as the definition of success (whether it's research or entrepreneurship or whatever), and to generalize that to thinking that people who quit that route and try another one are therefore failures.

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