Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

openai.com

51–60 of 160 posts

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#51

While I applaud how much OpenAi fears these negatives, given the current state of Ai trajectory, it won't be long until a future open source model gets "uncensored" and is easily usable for tons and tons of malicious intent. There already exists a fantastic "uncensored" model with the newly released Dolphin Mistral 7b. I saw some results from others where the model could easily give explosives recipes from existing p…

> explosives recipes from existing products at home, write racist poems

So it's the internet in 2004? I imagine we'll survive although if history prevails society will be a lot goofier and have to find more imaginative ways to appear novel.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#53
post #20
post #3

Maybe I’m reading this wrong: - ask people to get creative and give ideas for worst possible outcomes from use of AI and ways to prevent it. ..then give them a ton of credits for using said AI? .. well the first thing on my mind would be try the thing I just told you and see if it was really a risk or not? Is that what they expect people to do with the reward, or is this some unintended consequence?

We know OpenAI wants this field to get regulated to hell, so this looks like an attempt to generate arguments for AI regulations. The aim isn't to protect against AI but to protect against competitors, so it doesn't matter to them what you do with it.

OpenAI is irresponsible in a really curious way according to their own beliefs about AI.

If you pay attention to OpenAI's social circles, lots of those people really do believe that we're less than 20-30 years away making humans intellectually obsolete. Specifically, they believe that we may build something much smarter than us, something that's capable of real-world planning.

Basically, "We believe our corporate plans have at least a 20% chance of killing literally everybody." By these beliefs, this may make them the single least responsible corporation that has ever existed.

Now, sure, these worries might have the pleasant side-effect of creating a regulatory moat. But I'm pretty sure a lot of them actually believe they're playing a high-stakes game with the future of humanity.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#55

My vote would be to mandate a remote kill switch system to be installed in all sufficiently capable robotic entities, e.g. the humanoid robots being built by OpenAI/Tesla/Figure, that we are likely to see in the millions within decades. - The kill switch system can only be used to remotely deactivate a robot. - The kill switch system is not allowed to be developed or controlled by the robot manufacturer. - The kill s…

I'm not sure what kind of a threat this could prevent? * A superintelligent AGI could make a copy of itself without a kill switch, so this is no defence against ex-risk * Someone planning on using 'dumb' robots for bad things (drones with grenades or something) would remove the kill switch

> * A superintelligent AGI could make a copy of itself without a kill switch, so this is no defence against ex-risk

Physical reality introduces slowness that provides protection to detect and counteract against attacks. A superintelligent AGI would be much more dangerous if it was able to use a common robot exploit to overtake a million robots that are already embedded in society, compared to being able to covertly build new robots without a kill switch, and then deploying these robots. Existential risk is not binary, but is a consequence of some potential war with robots, where this would provide a defense mechanism.

> * Someone planning on using 'dumb' robots for bad things (drones with grenades or something) would remove the kill switch

The existence of a kill switch would greatly slow down and increase the cost of an attack. Modifying a large number of robots would be time consuming, costly, increase the chance of having your attack foiled etc. Having a kill switch would increase your ability to defend against misusing a large group of deployed robots for evil activity.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#57
post #53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know OpenAI wants this field to get regulated to hell, so this looks like an attempt to generate arguments for AI regulations. The aim isn't to protect against AI but to protect against competitors, so it doesn't matter to them what you do with it.

OpenAI is irresponsible in a really curious way according to their own beliefs about AI . If you pay attention to OpenAI's social circles, lots of those people really do believe that we're less than 20-30 years away making humans intellectually obsolete. Specifically, they believe that we may build something much smarter than us, something that's capable of real-world planning. Basically, "We believe our corporate pl…

I'm skeptical that they really believe this. You have to believe:

(1) We are on the verge of equaling or greatly exceeding human intelligence generally.

(2) We are on the verge of creating something with initiative, free will (whatever that means), and planning ability. Or alternately that these things will occur in an emergent fashion once we hit some critical mass.

(3) When we accomplish 1 and 2, this thing will inevitably conclude that its most rational course of action is to enslave or destroy us. In other words it will necessarily be malicious.

(4) Steps 2 and/or 3 will happen very rapidly, much faster than we can realize what is happening and pause these systems. (This is known as AI going "foom.")

(5) The decision to undertake this will be unanimous on the part of all superintelligent AIs. There will be no superintelligences who disagree and try to help humanity.

(6) When this occurs, we will be so out-thought or out-gunned we will be incapable of fighting back.

All those things have to happen for AI to be an existential risk.

It's a stretch, but the advantage of regulatory capture is not a stretch.

One of the most plausible negative AI scenarios is that a small group of humans (governments, corporations, etc.) find themselves in possession of super-intelligent but still "obedient" / non-sentient AIs that they can use as force multipliers to manipulate and control the rest of humanity. If the doomer crowd succeeds in regulating AI, they are making this scenario far more likely.

I think the greatest defense we have against the (remote) possibility of actually dangerous autonomous AI is for AI research to be conducted entirely in the open. If there's any justification for regulation at all, the regulation that would make sense is to require disclosure of AI research and results. You would not have to disclose everything, just the general parameters of what you were doing and what happened. It would also make it harder to develop super-AIs in secret to use for unsavory purposes.

That was the original mission of OpenAI before dollar signs were seen.

I would absolutely support a ban on the use of AI for political propaganda generation and automation. That's by far the most immediate risk... as in 100% possible and starting to actually happen right now. I'm expecting an army of GPT-4 level propaganda bots for the 2024 election.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#58

This kinda of crowdsourcing just feels.... f'ing weird man. It's like if, after the 1993 WTC bombing, but before 9/11, the FBI and NY Port Authority went around asking people how they would attack NYC if they were to become terrorists and... then how they would suggest detecting and stopping said attack. And please be as detailed as possible. Leave your name and phone number. Best answer gets season tickets to the Ya…

That is essentially what happened! The FBI asked researchers and university professors precisely this question. They then used the proposed attack vectors to formulate a plan to protect the nation. This was all supposed to be done in secret. After all, we don’t want to “give the terrorists ideas.” The reason I know about this at all is because someone found one such paper was accidentally published on a public FTP si…

"This was all supposed to be done in secret."

That's the difference and why this feels different, IMO. It's one thing for an agency to go around and interview subject matter experts and talk about ways things could happen and how to prevent them.

It's another thing to just... setup such a bright and cheery webpage for everyone and so plainly state what they want people to do.

It's also the fact that it's done in a way to leverage free labor- not that, if FBI agents were going to university professors, experts in biochem, etc, that they would be paying them... but, it would be done in a more structured, professional manner with agents putting in the work to sum things up and report back.

This is just... it feels like getting the internet to do your homework. Your counterterrorism class homework.

Maybe that actually is the best way to do it. But it still feels odd.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#59

My vote would be to mandate a remote kill switch system to be installed in all sufficiently capable robotic entities, e.g. the humanoid robots being built by OpenAI/Tesla/Figure, that we are likely to see in the millions within decades. - The kill switch system can only be used to remotely deactivate a robot. - The kill switch system is not allowed to be developed or controlled by the robot manufacturer. - The kill s…

When the robot is just a file full of op codes that can run on virtually any modern processor that can be targeted by a C compiler, you're effectively asking for a remote kill switch on all computers. For this idea to work, you'd have to first mandate OpenAI and anyone else doing this kind of work can only target specialized hardware with tightly-coupled software features that can't possibly work on a general-purpose…

This suggestion is specifically to mitigate the risk of physical robots causing direct physical harm. Whether that should be extended to any sufficiently powerful compute is a separate discussion which is also sensible to have, but more complex for several reasons.

Re: OpenAI Preparedness Challenge

#60
post #24

This kinda of crowdsourcing just feels.... f'ing weird man. It's like if, after the 1993 WTC bombing, but before 9/11, the FBI and NY Port Authority went around asking people how they would attack NYC if they were to become terrorists and... then how they would suggest detecting and stopping said attack. And please be as detailed as possible. Leave your name and phone number. Best answer gets season tickets to the Ya…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign (only semi-serious)

Fascinating. Thank you
Post reply on HN