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How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

chrisstucchio.com

11–20 of 128 posts

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#11
post #4

Which EE specializations are generally best for maximizing backup options in industry in govt/finance/data science?

If you want a job, go get a job. Don't undertake 6 years of PhD study unless you love what you're doing.

That's silly. Most people with a PhD don't get academic jobs. It would be foolish not to plan for that possibility.

I don't know much about EE, but I'll talk about math. It's unlikely you would enjoy research on nonlinear wave equations but hate stochastic PDEs. If one has far better job prospects, it's silly not to focus on that one unless you are dead certain you'll win the academic tournament.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a job, go get a job. Don't undertake 6 years of PhD study unless you love what you're doing.

That's silly. Most people with a PhD don't get academic jobs. It would be foolish not to plan for that possibility. I don't know much about EE, but I'll talk about math. It's unlikely you would enjoy research on nonlinear wave equations but hate stochastic PDEs. If one has far better job prospects, it's silly not to focus on that one unless you are dead certain you'll win the academic tournament.

PhDs make marginal improvements on one's employment prospects vs a Masters degree.

If you're doing it for the cash don't even undertake a PhD. Go get an MSc, go get a job, save four years of your life.

If you're gambling on getting into academia, you won't get the publication record you need if aren't motivated to do the work, and you won't be motivated to do the work if you don't enjoy what you're doing. If you don't get into academia but do have a quantitative PhD you will get a job quite easily, so why worry about your particular field.

My conclusion is that there is simply no point doing a PhD unless you really enjoy the work you're doing.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#14
I recently left my PhD program too (I'm "mastering out" in local parlance ;)) and what this post doesn't address is what I found to be the hardest part: making a decision to leave a world where people that leave are construed as a failures (note: contrary to my expectation, I've only received support in my decision from my awesome and anomalous department.) (Also, I should note that I left a software industry job to do the PhD so I knew I shouldn't have difficulty finding a job.)

For anyone who wants to take the leap but is afraid or unsure, I offer some words that were incredibly helpful for me from some of fantastic friends. To quote my amazing advisor from his response to my "I'm leaving" email:

'We had a Head of Department at Lancaster who used to stomp around the corridors moaning - "I've just lost another student to industry. He's got a great job, has a starting salary bigger than mine, is working on a fabulous project with better resources than we have. In what mad world is this judged as a failure?"'

And another colleague, who's currently a junior professor: 'You know, most Ph.D.ers are smart and successful people. Hence they have a difficulty in saying “This is not for me”. They instead say “I’ve been successful all my life, and I finished everything I started, so I should finish this as well”. By saying that, they choose to hang in there for many years in a depressed state.

Sometimes, the most courageous thing and the best thing to do is to quit when you know you would rather work in another capacity, or when you know you don’t want to work in academia. I congratulate you on your decision and I hope the best for you. ( In case you later decide to come back to academia, it will be waiting for you, so I would not worry about it.)'

Best of luck, those of you that are struggling with the decision. If you're anything like me, if you decide to leave you'll feel better than you have in years =)

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#15
post #3

I'm finishing my PhD, and starting a post-doc in the fall. I had wanted to break out into industry, because I didn't see myself in academia in the long term, but I didn't get anywhere with job applications, so here I am. I have a few questions: 1. My work consumes most of my time and energy - how would one find time to work on side projects and build a portfolio, when the academic workload is so all-consuming 2. I fe…

What is your field?

(Because if you're a theoretical chemist trying to become an industrial chemist, the advice below is probably useless. But since you refer to "side projects and a portfolio", I'm going to assume for now that you must be some kind of programmer.)

So:

First, a tiny story: At the corresponding time in my own career, I turned in my thesis, turned down a couple of jobs in my old field, moved into my parents' spare room, and spent three or four months teaching myself web development from online materials and a handful of books. (SICP, Learning Emacs, Introduction to TCP/IP, SQL for Smarties… the usual suspects.) Then I got a job. (It was the peak of the 1990s bubble, a good time to get a programming job. But, then, today is also a good time to get a programming job.)

The right way to save time on your academic workload is to stop doing academic work. Do you see yourself in academia in the long term? No. So why are you working on a postdoc? Who ordered you to get a postdoc? You did. Who is making you spend time and energy on that postdoc? You are. Write yourself a resignation letter, give yourself two weeks' notice, and quit.

The right way to escape a niche is to leave. You don't need to expunge the niche from your permanent record or anything - it's nothing to be ashamed of, it deserves a nice spot on your resume and is good for years of future anecdotes and impromptu lectures. But if the niche doesn't get you paying work, it may be time to let it rest for a while.

The right way to get any technical position is to demonstrate that you've done and enjoyed the kind of work that the position will ask you to do. If you want to build web sites, build a web site or two. If you want to build iOS applications, build an iOS application.

These things will not be sexy to an academic audience. You have to deal with that.

Don't worry about immersing yourself in the "larger pool". The reason there's a large pool of people doing X is: X is where the money is. And X is where the money is because, no matter how many people are doing X, there always seems to be more work to do than there are talented people to do it. Programming is in an expansionary phase, and there's a lot to be done.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#16

I recently left my PhD program too (I'm "mastering out" in local parlance ;)) and what this post doesn't address is what I found to be the hardest part: making a decision to leave a world where people that leave are construed as a failures (note: contrary to my expectation, I've only received support in my decision from my awesome and anomalous department.) (Also, I should note that I left a software industry job to…

"to leave a world where people that leave are construed as a failures"

That was very much the view when I left - is it a view that is particularly common in the UK?

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's silly. Most people with a PhD don't get academic jobs. It would be foolish not to plan for that possibility. I don't know much about EE, but I'll talk about math. It's unlikely you would enjoy research on nonlinear wave equations but hate stochastic PDEs. If one has far better job prospects, it's silly not to focus on that one unless you are dead certain you'll win the academic tournament.

PhDs make marginal improvements on one's employment prospects vs a Masters degree. If you're doing it for the cash don't even undertake a PhD. Go get an MSc, go get a job, save four years of your life. If you're gambling on getting into academia, you won't get the publication record you need if aren't motivated to do the work, and you won't be motivated to do the work if you don't enjoy what you're doing. If you don'…

...you won't get the publication record you need if aren't motivated to do the work, and you won't be motivated to do the work if you don't enjoy what you're doing.

The point I'm making is that if you are unmotivated in elliptic PDEs, you'll probably be unmotivated in control theory as well. The fact is that research is research.

You might hate experimental physics and love theory, or hate computation but love experimentation, but these distinctions between subfields (condensed matter vs photonics) that seem huge in academia are not that big in reality.

If these small distinctions can give you a big advantage 50% of the time, it's a tradeoff worth making.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#18
The post is awesome. Having just "graduated" (dropped out of my PhD program) and also interviewed a bunch of really smart folks who are making the transition to the "real world", I cannot emphasize the importance of the following for a good machine learning/engineering interview:

1. It doesn't matter if you have done research in a topic, do brush up on simple machine learning algorithms. The math after going through a PhD should be really easy for you. However, it is hard for an interviewer to gauge how good your math background is when you have done most of your quantitative work in a totally different field and you don't have enough of a common intersection.

2. Write code! If you are joining a small to middling start up, even if you will eventually be doing quantitative stuff, your peers will be people from engineering and they will evaluate you as a programmer. Brushing through something like the Algorithm Design Manual is going to be amazingly useful. Back in school, there was a linguistics professor who wrote most of his code in Scala, used version control and pivotal tracker. If someone who is working towards tenure can do it, there is no excuse for you. :-)

3. Try to work on tiny projects that involve some data analysis and some programming. If you are an R guy, do it in python and vice versa. Most importantly, think of the whole pipeline: taking the data (Infochimps/ AWS public datasets), cleaning it up, processing it using a random machine learning algorithm (pick any, its an easy and awesome learning opportunity), and then visualizing it. Repeat with cooler tools (E.g. d3.js for the visualization etc). The importance of this process is that it moves you away from the traditional anonymized datasets that you see in academia and helps you encounter real world data and gain intuition for that. This is incredibly helpful in the interview process because it allows you to get good ideas about other people's data and how to think about it.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#19
> Also, if your degree is in English, the best I can do is point you here (link to Starbucks job page).

I know it's supposed to be funny (i.e., it's "just a joke") and I grant I may be sensitive since I have a BA in Comparative Literature (a graduating class of 1 in my major) and a PhD in Classics, but this came across as completely obnoxious and unnecessary. Don't know anything about Humanities? Fine. Don't talk about them.

Still, thanks for the link to Software Carpentry. I didn't know the site, and it looks like a good place to point people for introductory material on the shell, make, and so on.

Re: How to leave academia (for science PhDs)

#20
I received my PhD (Physics) in 1999 and went directly to industry. At that time I saw industry as a well paid post doc. My intention was to work a few years and then seek an academic position.

In 2001 I had an offer from a top engineering school in Canada to join their faculty. And I said no.

Academia attracted me with the promise of intellectual freedom -- the ability to work on what ever problems I wanted to. This is a lie. To be successful in Academia, one needs to pick a narrow field and become the biggest expert in the smallest space. Neils Bohr described this as knowing more and more about less an less until you know absolutely everything about nothing.

In Industry I can move around to whatever problems fascinate me most. I've worked in Optical Componetns, designing video games, and now what I call computational sociology on social networks. My pattern has been to work in a field of about five years until I've built up the expertise I desire to have, then move on to a completely different field.

For those recently dropping out of academia or considering dropping out, you know in your heart it is the right choice. Don't worry about what people in that little club think. A decade from now they will be looking at you. With envy because you are free to work on the most exciting and interesting problems while they are stuck in the same shrinking field for the last ten years.

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