Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

chalmers.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 207 posts

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#21

Post by marcosdumay »

woliveirajr wrote: post #9
marcosdumay wrote: post #4

I'd like to see the research, because I believe there isn't any way to sell ipê wood legally in Brazil. I'm almost certain the real number is higher than the 96%, not the one on the title.

Here: https://www.chalmers.se/en/current/news/75-percent-of-exclus... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-023-01189-3

Thanks a lot.

Turns out there is a way, used mostly since the last decade. And their methodology seems best-fitting, and not a conservative estimation. I'm very positively surprised that 1/4 of the ipê wood sold internationally is legal.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#22

Post by arp242 »

Loughla wrote: post #18
aaronax wrote: post #16

Black locust is basically as good as ipe--competitive in characteristics like hardness and rot resistance, and I think slighly lower in price. It has been used for years for fence posts and now a lumber industry for it seems to be maturing. Apparently it grows like a weed and is even considered invasive in some places. I used black locust for a large porch and am very pleased with it.

I'm not sure about black locust rot resistance. That's pretty heavily informed on when you harvest it. If you harvest in the spring, it won't last five years. It's only good if harvested in the dead of winter when there is no sap. Also, it doesn't grow large, often because it's so susceptible to disease. So there's that, too.

Don't harvest in the spring then?

Wikipedia says "It is very resistant to rot" and "In the Netherlands some other parts of Europe, black locust is one of the most rot-resistant local trees".

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#23

Post by bluGill »

marricks wrote: post #10

It’s why you gotta burn ivory. When something is a luxury item for the wealthy rules don’t really matter you have to destroy the market.

Unless it is a piano keyboard, because musicians are aware of this and so the only pianos with ivory keyboards have ivory from nearly 100 years ago. There would be interest in new ivory by a few (generally because they have an antique piano with one broken key), but they will demand proof that the ivory was sustainably harvested (There was a park a few years back overcrowd with elephants that was looking into providing such certification, though last I've heard they haven't figured out how to do this)

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#24

Post by foobarian »

nemo44x wrote: post #20
aaronax wrote: post #16

Black locust is basically as good as ipe--competitive in characteristics like hardness and rot resistance, and I think slighly lower in price. It has been used for years for fence posts and now a lumber industry for it seems to be maturing. Apparently it grows like a weed and is even considered invasive in some places. I used black locust for a large porch and am very pleased with it.

I’ve never heard of Black Locust and I don’t recall it being an option when I built a deck a few years back (perhaps it was though!) but reading about it I wish I had. I ended up just using pressure treated pine (the exotics were 10’s of thousands more) but when it’s time to rebuild I’ll certainly consider Black locust. Apparently it takes stain well too.

My porch is made of that newfangled plastic wood and as much as I hate the idea, I love how long it will last.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#25

Post by hedora »

bluGill wrote: post #23
marricks wrote: post #10

It’s why you gotta burn ivory. When something is a luxury item for the wealthy rules don’t really matter you have to destroy the market.

Unless it is a piano keyboard, because musicians are aware of this and so the only pianos with ivory keyboards have ivory from nearly 100 years ago. There would be interest in new ivory by a few (generally because they have an antique piano with one broken key), but they will demand proof that the ivory was sustainably harvested (There was a park a few years back overcrowd with elephants that was looking into providi…

The technician that works on our piano reglued some of the ivory. He said that, in the worst case, he could give us a replacement, since he has a pile of antique ivory he got from the keys of ruined/rebuilt pianos.

If we ever fully restore the keys, we’d opt for not-ivory.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#26

Post by hedora »

civilitty wrote: post #2

In my (albeit limited) experience, if you can’t get some sort of provenance documentation for exotic hardwoods from the lumberyard, it’s almost guaranteed to be unsustainably harvested, mostly outright illegally. Unfortunately it seems that most lumberyards open to the public and contractors are full of such wood because the legit stuff is even more expensive and sold mostly to high end furniture manufacturers and sp…

I’ve never seen a lumberyard that doesn’t have sustainability certifications.

Anyway, much of the illegal harvesting is due to Brazil’s right wing government actively encouraging people to burn the amazon to the ground.

Though it would be hypocritical, we should treat that as an act of war. The greenhouse effect of that one action is going to cause trillions of damage to coastal cities alone.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#27

Post by LadyCailin »

jihadjihad wrote: post #6
civilitty wrote: post #2

In my (albeit limited) experience, if you can’t get some sort of provenance documentation for exotic hardwoods from the lumberyard, it’s almost guaranteed to be unsustainably harvested, mostly outright illegally. Unfortunately it seems that most lumberyards open to the public and contractors are full of such wood because the legit stuff is even more expensive and sold mostly to high end furniture manufacturers and sp…

It's OT, and not meant to detract from your point or be pedantic in any way, just something I've seen and heard in software, too: > providence when what I am sure you meant to say was "provenance" . I've heard people talk and ask about the "providence of the data" too much not to leave a comment, I guess! It's not manna from heaven it's just some rows in a database somewhere ;)

Perhaps they meant documentation about the city in Rhode Island?

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#29

Post by ljf »

foobarian wrote: post #24
nemo44x wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard of Black Locust and I don’t recall it being an option when I built a deck a few years back (perhaps it was though!) but reading about it I wish I had. I ended up just using pressure treated pine (the exotics were 10’s of thousands more) but when it’s time to rebuild I’ll certainly consider Black locust. Apparently it takes stain well too.

My porch is made of that newfangled plastic wood and as much as I hate the idea, I love how long it will last.

We have had that plastic wood down for 5 years and it is perfect. 2 years ago I extended a small bit of decking and used real wood as it isn't that visible and was so much cheaper. Already two years after it looks terrible and I'll be amazed if it lasts 5 years. Sadly plastic wood is brilliant. I can see it outlasting the frame it is built on.

Re: Exclusive hardwood may be illegally harvested

#30

Post by digging »

foobarian wrote: post #24
nemo44x wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard of Black Locust and I don’t recall it being an option when I built a deck a few years back (perhaps it was though!) but reading about it I wish I had. I ended up just using pressure treated pine (the exotics were 10’s of thousands more) but when it’s time to rebuild I’ll certainly consider Black locust. Apparently it takes stain well too.

My porch is made of that newfangled plastic wood and as much as I hate the idea, I love how long it will last.

Will it? I'm not aware of any plastics that are insanely durable, they just don't rot. But treated wood also doesn't rot. I'd expect a lot of weathering and surface degradation at a similar rate to typical woods.
Post reply on HN