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Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#111

Post by sonofhans »

PedroBatista wrote: post #38

Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any. This is just another step in a long string of similar announcements and "actions" from Apple to gather ammo against lawsuits and new bills, delay or buy any good will they can get regarding this matter. It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple ca…

> … those repair kits sold for almost the price of a device.

Apple will rent you a kit for $49. Find one other manufacturer of similar devices who even pretends to do this, never mind spins up an international program for it.

> Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any.

Of course there are. All corporate decisions are ultimately human decisions. Any human decision in a social context has moral implications. Saying that corporate decisions are devoid of morals lets companies off the hook.

Now, I believe understand what you mean — that Apple’s decisions are pure business, that they do not consider moral or ethical implications. I believe this is demonstrably false. Apple has for decades made difficult and expensive choices which clearly serve their customer’s best interests.

They could build customer profiles based on location information and sell them; they do not. They make more effort to reduce the environmental footprint of their products than any similar company; for instance, it’s getting very difficult to find any plastic at all in Apple packaging. They could keep their mouth shut about LGBQ issues, yet they’re consistently vocal and demonstrative about their support.

Yes, all these things _also_ make Apple money. They’re brilliant at this. Just because they make money does not mean all their actions are so dictated, any more than yours or mine.

> I’m sorry to be so negative.

In our world of late-stage capitalism it’s hard to blame you for feeling cynical. Don’t tar everyone with the same brush. Not every company treats humans as grist for the mill.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#112

Post by trimethylpurine »

derefr wrote: post #96
smoldesu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So instead of complaining the world isn't perfect its better to try to make it better. Well, that's part of the problem. Right-to-repair bills that don't address serialized components or hardware DRM won't make it better. Apple is backing this bill because it aligns with their definition of "repair" and further reinforces the idea that the first party is the only one allowed to authorize maintenance. This is less a…

Serialized components / hardware DRM exist to disincentivize the pickpocket-to-grey-market-refurbished pipeline. They’re the reason that Android devices get stolen in great numbers but iOS devices don’t — iOS devices in “lost mode” have no resale value, including scrap resale value. That’s the entire point of lost mode — and that disincentivization only works as long as the components from that lost-mode phone are co…

>They’re the reason that Android devices get stolen in great numbers but iOS devices don’t

I think that's unlikely. Phones are disguised by cases. Most tech folks can't even tell them apart when they are sitting side by side on a desk in front of them. Not without the screen coming on, anyway. Let alone in someone's pocket or at a bar. If anything Androids might be stolen more often due to socioeconomic pressure. Can't afford an iPhone, can't afford a nice neighborhood. Or vice versa, an Android gets stolen because it looks like an iPhone, a higher price target. And those would only be relevant IF the statistics agreed with your assertion here, but I don't see that they do, based on some quick searching.

Regardless, phone location was a feature of Android long before iOS. I had it on Windows CE phones before the iPhone even existed. Laptops had LoJack before smart phones existed. Theft was not deterred. Rates of recovery maybe increased, but I'm not sure we have statistics on the latest Apple tech to be able to opine about it, and I wouldn't expect that they would say anything about theft, only about recovery when the criminal is stupid enough to not use some cheap shielding they could get off of Amazon for $5.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#113

Post by turquoisevar »

tacocataco wrote: post #41
nar001 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's self repair program lets you link the parts to your device with a phone call, so that's moot

I wonder how long it takes to reach the representative. So so soooo many companies hide behind excruciating customer service hell holes to get out of being responsible for fixing mistakes. "You can right to repair, you just have to wait 3 hours on the phone on the world's least stable customer service line." I shouldn't have to drag my balls through apple's pile of glass to use the product I purchased. This is nearly…

Apple’s customer service experience isn't nearly as nightmarish as your typical CS experience.

The wait times seem nonexistent, and you can schedule a callback at a time of your choosing so you can skip the line entirely.

That said, my personal favorite is just texting them over iMessage. No waiting, no reading off serial numbers and hoping the representative heard you correctly over a phone line with ancient audio quality, and no symmetrical communication that requires you to devote all your attention to the conversation.

Simply get it done on your own time.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#114

Post by marcosdumay »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #25
steveBK123 wrote: post #13

Cynically this could be one of those laws that the big producers like Apple have a competitive advantage over smaller companies that do one-off production runs with contract manufacturers. When you are at the scale of Apple, you could have a whole team designing your right-to-repair compliant processes, and lobbyists to ensure the law as passed is most favorable to your implementation. It also fits in nicely with App…

Although what you say isn’t wrong … Apple really can’t win. Oppose RtR. Gets criticized. Complies with RtR. Also gets criticized. LOL

They are not complying. They never came any close to complying. If they started complying all the discussion here would be of confused people trying to make sense of something they never thought Apple could ever do.

All they did is some PR pretending to support a law they will clearly refuse to obey. There is no explanation for this except that it's a Machiavellian act.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#115

Post by turquoisevar »

solarkraft wrote: post #43

I'm not even going to read up on what they say they'll do. Apple has bait-and-switched on repair numerous times. I'll wait for their actions and Louis Rossmann's review of them.

I'll save you the wait. Rossmann will never voice full-throated support, no matter what Apple does.

Not only because his clout now heavily depends on dissent but also because his individual needs go far beyond that of the average repair shop, much less the average consumer.

There is no world in which Apple can meet those needs short of him getting direct access to all internal classified documentation and the assembly line to pick and grab any piece and part he might desire.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#116

Post by ericmay »

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #101
ericmay wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you add the iPhone SE you have in there as just another smartphone it's on the lower end to middle of the range?

The vendor feedback is that the iPhone SE would be on the high-end, in terms of durability & quality, of what they sell comparatively as Android phones. To paraphrase him, iPhones are high-end or very high-end, and comparing prices for repair is not necessary bad for iPhone users. But with a more low-end Android phone, you can get cheaper repairs. I still hope that a bit more options for parts will lead to lower pric…

So just to recap:

An iPhone SE uses high quality parts that are highly durable.

An iPhone SE, as you noted, is on the low to mid range for repair when compared to other smart phones.

If you use a low-end Android phone you can get cheaper repairs. Presumably because they’re cheaper, lower quality parts.

I’m not entirely sure what the complaint is about.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#117

Post by kdmccormick »

randomdata wrote: post #108
kdmccormick wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the example, someone wanted to see a tradition carry on even after they were no longer involved. To achieve that, they accepted a lower offer for the business to sell it to someone who also wants to carry on the tradition. But that is exactly the same, far as the money goes.. It's not exactly the same. People have emotional attachments to things, like restaurants. This hypothetical owner may have made the sale t…

> It's not exactly the same. I don't see the difference. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that the highest bidder offers $1,000,000. The party who sees the tradition vision tops out at $750,000. You can accept the $750,000 offer and see the tradition carry on. Or you can accept $1,000,000 and spend $250,000 of it in some other way to see the tradition carry on. Theoretically the outcome is the same either way.…

Your argument here boils down to "all decision making can be viewed in terms of expected net economic gain/loss", and while I don't disagree with you, it isn't a very salient or novel point.

My whole argument is this: Public shareholders compel their businesses to treat market capitalization and/or dividends as the principal goals. Private owners, though, may have goals other than the business's value or profit, such as "tradition". Whether those other goals can be thought of in terms of monetary value seems orthogonal.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#118

Post by kmlx »

post_break wrote: post #74
kmlx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i guess Apple? it's their device, and their parts. but anyway, re. price, it's the same issue for car parts, dishwasher parts etc etc

It's nothing like car parts. You can get re manufactured, OE (not OEM), used, 3rd party parts.

oh, i understand what you mean. i never install anything other than original parts in my cars, and those have huge markups. i guess what the people in this thread are looking for are “OE” parts for smartphones?

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#119

Post by kodapoda »

ge96 wrote: post #34
nar001 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's self repair program lets you link the parts to your device with a phone call, so that's moot

Yeah he shows that process and how even doing that. There's lingering effects like face ID not working anymore or two brand new displays not working the same. iphone 15 https://youtu.be/dbRKQ0OjQeE?si=hb5lNXSwUYIxXyyj&t=323 mac https://youtu.be/r0Hwb5xvBn8?si=55apGCKsRoowUFL4&t=272

Doesn't he say in the video that the issues were resolved once he used Apple-certified parts and called them to link the parts to the device? He even confirmed that the Face ID issues are likely a security feature.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#120

Post by kodapoda »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #64
nar001 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's self repair program lets you link the parts to your device with a phone call, so that's moot

That's not really moot, it's a whole separate subsystem that you have to reason about. "Swap it with one that you know works" is a solid troubleshooting step that is completely ruined if you have to call a third party to do it. Besides, maybe the big solar flare comes and you can't call Apple for a few months or years. Offline repair needs to be possible.

> "Swap it with one that you know works"

In the video linked above they say the parts have to be Apple-certified. It's not as flexible as buying any random part and being able to use it right away, but it's not surprising considering it's Apple. Still, this makes swapping parts a predictable process.

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