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Safety benefits of roundabouts

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Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#371

Post by kdmccormick »

sfn42 wrote: post #240
kdmccormick wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthou…

I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. You never know what's going on with that driver.

I mean, yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. I do make eye contact before walking.

But I swear, I am able to make myself seen to drivers almost immediately at this particular roundabout. Maybe it's the design, or maybe just my neighborhood's culture. Probably both.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#372

Post by worthless-trash »

annica wrote: post #243
worthless-trash wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no ambiguity in practice because these only happen on T intersections. These rules also apply on low / moderate traffic + intersections with no issues mainly because you are expected to pay attention to the road and not just breeze through every intersection like a maniac.

There is ambiguity in practice. Accidents do happen in roundabouts and t intersections without anyone driving like “a maniac”. The point is that the article doesn’t really discuss the drawbacks of roundabouts of which there are many.

I was referring to the "give way to the right" theory, not the roundabout theory. Which you also must give way to your right.

If humans are involved, of course there are problems, because humans are error prone, the question is if its a problem, which from my limited experience of 30 years of driving is not a significant problem in Australia.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#373

Post by moribvndvs »

I like roundabouts but American drivers on average have no idea what to do with them, not even from a common sense perspective. To be fair, American drivers are vanishingly able to handle four way intersection, but I digress.

There are two roundabouts near me. The same two problems are rampant.

1. Failure to yield and yoloing into the circle at or nearly at full speed. One of the circles has a full stop sign, where some drivers seem to think that just because they stopped they are entitled to go next and the traffic already in the circle should and will stop to let them go, like a four way. The other doesn’t have stop sign, and I think people take the lack of one to mean they don’t have to yield or in any way pay attention because, hey, no stop sign. Admittedly, part of this is due to shitty design of the circles themselves.

2. Cars in the circle suddenly exiting without signaling, often veering across the outer lane of traffic. Part of this is driver’s education issue (I don’t think they taught us about roundabouts when I got my license several decades ago), part is the fact that in general people are allergic to signaling and have no awareness of other vehicles around them, as we have the same problem on highways.

Perhaps this is more of an awkward transitional period for their use in the States, but honestly I think the bigger problem is we on average have very poor roadmanship and inconsistent road design.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#374

Post by iggldiggl »

vinay427 wrote: post #315
masklinn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you ever tried to cross one? I do so almost every day. Pretty much every roundabout has marked crossings with islands between the lanes, drivers slow down on entry so easily yield to a pedestrian trying to cross, and the crossing is about a car length out of the roundabout so on exit drivers have the space to both be out of the roundabout and yield to pedestrians. Then again I’m in a country where drivers are…

> Then again I’m in a country where drivers are generally respectful of pedestrians, especially on marked crossings most drivers will actively stop if they see a pedestrian getting close to a crossing. This seems to not generally be the case in the UK, or at least in any of the large and small cities in England that I’ve spent time in. Except for zebra crossings (which are few and far between at crossings compared to…

For a long time the UK had a rule whereby turning traffic only had to yield to parallel pedestrians already crossing the street. Only relatively recently did the rule change to turning road traffic having to yield to all pedestrians walking alongside, even if they're only about to start crossing.

Coming from Germany, that difference in rules was always noticeable when going on a vacation to the UK.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#375

Post by gambiting »

brynx97 wrote: post #328
gambiting wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Poland for a long time - there's no issue mixing roundabouts and pedestrians, if anything they make is super easy - every exit has its own zebra crossing which means people exiting the roundabout have to stop to let you cross, which actually works well with the inherent design of the roundabout, or for really large ones with multiple lanes you just have lights.

As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are…

Just fyi, this is a very recent change of behaviour. As recently as ~10 years ago no one would ever stop for you in front of a pedestrian crossing in Poland. The law required you to stop but only if a pedestrian was already on the crossing - someone waiting on the side? That's their problem.

The law was changed to say that if someone is waiting in front of the crossing you have to stop(with fines for not doing so) and the behaviour has changed to what it is now - you are right, most Polish drivers will stop for you if you even look like you want to cross - but it wasn't like this not long ago.

It also caused a massive uproar across drivers, as if the sky was going to fall down if they have to stop for pedestrians - and yet, it's all fine.

So you know, maybe in US it also isn't a lost cause, maybe it could change for the better.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#376

Post by Fatnino »

moribvndvs wrote: post #373

I like roundabouts but American drivers on average have no idea what to do with them, not even from a common sense perspective. To be fair, American drivers are vanishingly able to handle four way intersection, but I digress. There are two roundabouts near me. The same two problems are rampant. 1. Failure to yield and yoloing into the circle at or nearly at full speed. One of the circles has a full stop sign, where s…

Stanford University has been installing roundabouts in recent years. But they put pedestrian cross walks across all the entrances and exits. So you find yourself driving around and come across a car fully stopped in the loop because some kid is crossing the exit on foot.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#377

Post by dp-hackernews »

Roundabouts are SHIT - especially so when they eventually acquire traffic lights - leading up to them, and finally actually on them...

In the UK its priority to the right, meaning if there's something coming around the roundabout, you must/should wait... Which only works of there is a gap in the flow of traffic big enough for you to jump into...

Don't worry USA, you'll soon regret your decision to introduce roundabouts.

Stick with your sensible "right on red" logic, and your sweeping circular on/off ramps (yeah, you and Canada have plenty of space to do those) - they are genius for maintaining traffic flow (not so convinced about the traffic lights leading onto the freeway though at rush hour times!)

If you fancy a giggle of what mayhem roundabouts can cause, try searching for "spaghetti junction" near Birmingham England, or "the magic roundabout" of Swindon England fame - they are priceless!

Enjoy! ;-)

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#378

Post by londons_explore »

kdmccormick wrote: post #370
londons_explore wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.

why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?

Bicycles...?

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#379

Post by kdmccormick »

londons_explore wrote: post #378
kdmccormick wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?

Bicycles...?

Not necessary in the design I'm talking about, assuming you're driving nice and slow: https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/s...

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#380

Post by davidw »

pnw wrote: post #358
davidw wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that a lot of American traffic engineering is about increasing automobile throughput at the expense of all other factors. Safety, expense, even how economically productive the street is in terms of supporting businesses and housing.

I would argue in locations like Seattle the exact opposite now applies. Lots of “road diets”, bike lanes and other engineering that reduces automobile throughput.

It's good to see some places trying to course correct after 70 some years of pretty much exclusive focus on automobiles. They have a lot of work to do.
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