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Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

arstechnica.com

61–70 of 165 posts

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#61

Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any. This is just another step in a long string of similar announcements and "actions" from Apple to gather ammo against lawsuits and new bills, delay or buy any good will they can get regarding this matter. It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple ca…

“ It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple can't be caught "of the wrong side of history" so they pretend to switch sides, or even paint themselves as on of the original supporters. I wonder how bad it gets until they use Steve Wozniak's name for this...”

I agree with your assessment. On the other hand, we should be open and accepting when large companies make policy shifts.

They will need to live up to the expectations of this new enlightenment, to be sure, and not run down the “Apple-certified” path you described. But I’m hesitant to immediately consider this is the way it will be.

I do recognize that optimism and my belief that people (and the companies they embody) can make substantial changes to their default behaviors has burned me before, so your pessimism is certainly warranted.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#63
post #55

Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any. This is just another step in a long string of similar announcements and "actions" from Apple to gather ammo against lawsuits and new bills, delay or buy any good will they can get regarding this matter. It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple ca…

Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any. This is the way to think about all businesses. Even if they’ve been making your favourite products for years, never forget that they’re just here to make money. People who attach morals, norms, and emotions to businesses are falling into the marketing trap. This is by design. Unfortunately I don’t know much of a way to get people to snap out of it other…

*large businesses.

Plenty of small businesses sometimes act against their own self-interest because they genuinely care about their community and their workers. See: retiring restaurant owners who sell to someone who will keep the tradition alive rather than the highest bidder.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#64
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The individual components are coded to the device/can't hot swap identical parts and have it just work. Hugh Jeffreys demoed it with a laptop and phone

Apple's self repair program lets you link the parts to your device with a phone call, so that's moot

That's not really moot, it's a whole separate subsystem that you have to reason about. "Swap it with one that you know works" is a solid troubleshooting step that is completely ruined if you have to call a third party to do it.

Besides, maybe the big solar flare comes and you can't call Apple for a few months or years. Offline repair needs to be possible.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#65

Cynically this could be one of those laws that the big producers like Apple have a competitive advantage over smaller companies that do one-off production runs with contract manufacturers. When you are at the scale of Apple, you could have a whole team designing your right-to-repair compliant processes, and lobbyists to ensure the law as passed is most favorable to your implementation. It also fits in nicely with App…

Although what you say isn’t wrong … Apple really can’t win. Oppose RtR. Gets criticized. Complies with RtR. Also gets criticized. LOL

They put themselves in this position, it isn't the first time they've come out in support of right to repair, only to push a maliciously compliant repair program. So everyone's going to be highly skeptical of them until they see the results.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#66
This bill needs to provide at least one of these things in order to not be a damp squib:

- Electronic components.

Most attempts to water down R2R specifically involve limiting the access provided to "assemblies" rather than individual chips. OEMs don't actually do component level repair[0], the labor costs are too high, so they make the consumer eat the cost of a logic board swap. Furthermore they don't want to have to sell components because that makes product cloning easier.

- Parts pairing tools.

Parts used to authenticate the user are typically paired to the device specifically to prohibit third-party replacement. This is for a legitimate reason[1], but that reason has been weaponized into a generic prohibition on third-party repair. Repair shops should have access to the tools needed to swap serialized parts between phones.

- Calibration tools.

Parts that aren't explicitly locked out for security reasons still sometimes require calibration. This is mainly because Apple likes to get the most out of their parts, and is a legitimate engineering reason, but Apple won't provide the calibration tools because it's PrOPrIETaRY. This often generates confusion when people swap logic boards and think that something is paired when it's not, and we can't tell the difference until someone actually goes and builds their own calibration tool for it[2].

- "Intellectual property"[3] exemptions.

People who make third-party pairing or calibration tools run the risk of spurious DMCA 1201 claims. While DMCA 1201 is ostensibly there to prevent people from selling copying tools for copyrighted works, that protection also applies to software, and software has a nasty habit of working its way into absolutely everything. While it might ultimately be legal to produce a tool to allow parts to be swapped, that still subjects the producer of that tool to years and years of litigation to prove their legality. Even the existing DMCA 1201 exemption process, which is specifically intended to prevent this, only applies to individual acts of circumvention and not tools. We need either a separate exemption process for tools, or at the very least, an extension of copyright misuse to include "adding DRM to things that are not copyrightable" and statutory damages for such misuse.

[0] Unless forced to do so to fix a product defect, and usually it's done like shit by the lowest bidder

[1] Fake touch sensors can just lie and provide the same fingerprint data each time

[2] Such as the calibration tool for the MacBook angle sensors, which everyone thought was paired to the device - even Apple's PR team - but wasn't. People were hallucinating all sorts of explanations as for why you would need to lock down an angle sensor when it turns out Apple just doesn't communicate any of this.

[3] I'm using the phrase "Intellectual property" in the sense of "anything we can use to stop competitors from competing", not in reference to any actual, specific law.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#67
post #8

[flagged]

> Seems like the fanboys are upset. Sad. Their blind brand loyalty demonstrates perfectly while Apple will never follow repairable design.

Alternatively, perhaps now would be a good time for a little introspection. You wrote a factually incorrect post trolling for emotional responses - did you really expect anything better?

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#68
post #61

Please don't attach any morals to this because there aren't any. This is just another step in a long string of similar announcements and "actions" from Apple to gather ammo against lawsuits and new bills, delay or buy any good will they can get regarding this matter. It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple ca…

“ It's appears they are convinced some meaningful part of the "Right to Repair" can't be stopped and of course as competent strategists they are, Apple can't be caught "of the wrong side of history" so they pretend to switch sides, or even paint themselves as on of the original supporters. I wonder how bad it gets until they use Steve Wozniak's name for this...” I agree with your assessment. On the other hand, we sho…

>On the other hand, we should be open and accepting when large companies make policy shifts.

Man, if I had a dollar for every time I heard something along these lines of "well we should still encourage X, even if it's a clear political play"

I suppose there's just something about being vaguely eager to tacitly accept overt attempts at changing the general discourse

Simply because they begrudgingly acknowledge economically progressive agendas in a very limited context, not even truly supporting it; simply pretending to have been on our "side" the whole time

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times..."

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although what you say isn’t wrong … Apple really can’t win. Oppose RtR. Gets criticized. Complies with RtR. Also gets criticized. LOL

>Apple really can’t win. Oppose RtR. Gets criticized. Complies with RtR. Also gets criticized. LOL Wrong, they can just do i - publish schematics for everyone (not only approved partners) - publish diagnostic software for everyone - sell repair tools and spare parts to everyone - allow legit users to use their broken devices parts for spare parts by providing ways for the owner to transfer ownership or renounce owner…

One legal thing mobile equipment manufacturers point at to support closed designs, is that the FCC requires that no "simple" software change can make an approved device violate its approved operating parameters. Many wifi and 4g/5g radios could be turned into very general purposes software defined radios if they were completely open about the software. Primarily because they want to be able to comply with standard changes if they occur after the chips are designed, but before the point of peak sales for the chip. Parameterizing things like channel width, and even band limits to some extent are insurance against being left with a lot invested in an unsellable product.

We need to remove the threat of that regulatory stick and add another atick threatening them for lack of openness. Then there is the carrot hobbyists will find a use for their chips that creates a secondary market like rtlsdr or rpi back when. Let the FCC go after people actually breaking the law rather than making sure the world is safe from things a few people might use for breaking the law.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#70

I think at this point it makes sense. I imagine most consumers aren’t interested in repairing themselves, but aren’t super interested in going to some random local repair shop. At this point they have their consumers hooked on visiting the Apple Store. Not really a net loss for them, plus it gives off the appearance of being consumer friendly.

If it were easier to swap a battery I would do it myself, but they made it so difficult with glue and crap that I would only trust the Apple Store to make the repair since they have the right hardware. Plus, it’s on them if they make a mistake and break my phone.
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