Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Safety benefits of roundabouts

theconversation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 409 posts

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#361

Post by severino »

_zamorano_ wrote: post #53

In Spain we use roundabouts heavily. They're perfect for crossings with low to middle traffic. No useless waiting time, good visiblity and no need for traffic lights. For heavy traffic, though, they're useless as the car flow of one entry/exit can take over the roundabout and block all other entries. Also, it seems hard to understand for many drivers that regulations regarding changing lanes don't change in a roundab…

> and no need for traffic lights

Inside cites, those traffic lights in intersections were usually also semaphores for pedestrian crosswalks. So when you replace the intersection with a roundabout, you usually keep the traffic lights for the crosswalks alone. At the speed a car exits a roundabout, a non-regulated crosswalk could be quite dangerous.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#362

Post by dns_snek »

zik wrote: post #352
dns_snek wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please share your sources because your claims defy common sense and all data I've seen on the topic. > Australia: Crash reduction after roundabout installed: 74% in the casualty crash rate; 32% in property damage only; 68% in pedestrian casualty crashes per year. > Netherlands: crash reduction at roundabouts: 73% in all pedestrian injury crashes; 89 % for pedestrian fatality; 63% for moped injuries; 30% for cycle inj…

I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately. Australia's rules regarding roundabouts prioritise vehicle throughput rather than pedestrian safety. Our road rules give cars priority at roundabouts - pedestrians don't normally get crosswalks and must take their chances dodging through the traffic. This isn't a flaw with roundabouts, it's a flaw in how Australia has chosen to implement them.

That's interesting, I don't think I've seen that sort of implementation in common use anywhere with pedestrian traffic. The only implementation I'm familiar with are roundabouts with crosswalks where pedestrians have the right of way.

Given the lack of crosswalks, are those roundabouts designed to be crossed by pedestrians at all?

> I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately.

Here's an alternative: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271423184_An_overvi...

The paper references the following source which I'm not able to access: https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2717863

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#363

Post by pandaman »

crote wrote: post #298
pandaman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protection is just by hiding half of the traffic beyond an obstacle, you can still get t-boned on the roundabout, but only by the cars from your right and not from both directions like on an intersection. I guess it's a plus but with the added danger of a head-on collision from people traversing the roundabout in the wrong way I won't say if it's net-positive safety-wise with any degree of confidence.

It also greatly reduces the impact of being t-boned by cars coming from the right. The car coming from the right has to slow down in order to take the roundabout. This means you are now getting t-boned by a car going 30mph rather than 60mph, which is the difference a fatal accident and walking away with barely a scratch. Cars going the wrong way is a non-issue. It is clearly signed how you're supposed to drive, and i…

> The car coming from the right has to slow down in order to take the roundabout.

Why? We are talking about people, who don't pay attention and drive through an intersection, the same people won't pay attention and won't slow down, let pedestrians to cross and do other silly things in the video.

> It is clearly signed how you're supposed to drive

I don't know where you live, but roundabouts near me have no signage of any kind. They are intersections with the center removed, on one near my home I've been seeing the same woman doing a left turn once a week (we seemed to have the same schedule so going there around the same time). Not to mention that many people don't pay attention to whatever signage you will put up, it's not a magic spell.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#364

Post by ajuc »

pbmonster wrote: post #327
kdmccormick wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthou…

> As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian…

Overpasses suck for pedestrians almost as much as underpasses. They create obstacles for older people, handicapped, bicycles, people with kids, etc. They split cities into separate "regions" that feel "far away" mentally which increases traffic. They create opportunities for problematic behaviour like vandalism and crime (because they block vision).

If cars create problems with traffic - cars should be paying the price of solving these problems - so it should be cars that have to drive over/under. Let pedestrians stay on the street level.

This is how it should be solved (example from my city, I walk there almost daily): https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6

There's a fast road for transit on the overpass, under that there's a slower crossing with zebra and bike path. No problem for pedestrians and bikes.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#365

Post by m463 »

crote wrote: post #299
m463 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow this stuff is like factorio, where you learn signals. too bad you can't go underground.

You can! In The Netherlands there are several multi-level roundabouts, with one level for cars and another for bikes and pedestrians.

wow.

Somehow I'm reminded of those old pneumantic mail tubes interwoven with the fabric of the building...

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#366

Post by nine_k »

brynx97 wrote: post #328
gambiting wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Poland for a long time - there's no issue mixing roundabouts and pedestrians, if anything they make is super easy - every exit has its own zebra crossing which means people exiting the roundabout have to stop to let you cross, which actually works well with the inherent design of the roundabout, or for really large ones with multiple lanes you just have lights.

As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are…

In the US this also happens, if, like in Krakow, you happen to try it in an actual old and dense city, like NYC.

It of course cannot happen in car-oriented suburbs, where you a driver can't even expect pedestrians to exist.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#367

Post by ajuc »

nine_k wrote: post #366
brynx97 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are…

In the US this also happens, if, like in Krakow, you happen to try it in an actual old and dense city, like NYC. It of course cannot happen in car-oriented suburbs, where you a driver can't even expect pedestrians to exist.

Suburbs in Poland still have pedestrians tho.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#368

Post by kdmccormick »

pbmonster wrote: post #327
kdmccormick wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthou…

> As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian…

It does get close to deadlocking traffic at rush hour. Wait time for cars to enter is like 5 minutes at 6pm.

And you know, I'm OK with that. There are plenty of other ways to get around my city, so if you want to do it in your own personal metal box at the busiest time of the day, then you can wait 5 extra minutes.

Pedestrian overpasses would look butt ugly and way exceed the city's budget for this intersection.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#369

Post by Fradow »

brynx97 wrote: post #328
gambiting wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Poland for a long time - there's no issue mixing roundabouts and pedestrians, if anything they make is super easy - every exit has its own zebra crossing which means people exiting the roundabout have to stop to let you cross, which actually works well with the inherent design of the roundabout, or for really large ones with multiple lanes you just have lights.

As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are…

That must depends on location heavily.

While I have not visited the US extensively, I was very surprised when in California at how respectful drivers were with pedestrians, not just stopping for them, but stopping a few meters before the crossings.

Krakow was good as well, but not to that extent. In France, overall the rural part is pretty respectful, and the bigger the city, the worst it is (in Paris and Marseille, it's not great).

The absolute worst city I've been to in that regard was Naples, were motorists will not stop at crossings unless you actively step in their way.

So yeah, a lot of answers are going to vary drastically depending on what's the driving culture there. Universally motorists will stop at lights, because of that harsh possible consequences of running a light (getting T-boned), but stopping for pedestrians at crossings vary widly.

Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts

#370

Post by kdmccormick »

londons_explore wrote: post #288
kdmccormick wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthou…

unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.

why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?
Post reply on HN