Was Rust Worth It? • Hacker News Board

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#341

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

WatchDog wrote: post #109

chungy wrote: post #2

Perhaps my biggest critique is that crates.io has no namespacing. Anyone can just claim a global and generic package name and we mostly have to deal with it (unless you avoid using the crates.io repository, but then you'll probably have more problems...). Some of these globally-claimed generic packages are not really the best package to use. Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation, which i…

Maven and Java really don’t get enough credit for how well it’s dependency management works. So many inferior dependency management systems for other languages have come along later, and learned nothing from those that came before it.

And NuGET, which was inspired on them.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#342

Post by csomar » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #111

fawadasaurus wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did some analysis on crates.io to find the top name squatters. Then I did some calculations and found that the top name squatter created their crates at a rate of about one ever 30 seconds for a period of a week straight. I send the analysis to the crates.io team and pointed that they have a no-automation policy. They told me that it was not sufficient proof that someone was squatting those names. That's my problem…

There's a secret effort in the Rust community to supplant Crates.io and create an entirely new package ecosystem with proper namespacing, security, and much better community. Not naming names, but I know several people working to put Crates.io out to pasture. There's a level of playing nice with them for the time being (eg. build reproducibility), but it's only KTLO. Crates.io needs to die for Rust to thrive. They're…

crates.io is fine.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#343

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

dilippkumar wrote: post #84

> After two decades of JavaScript and decent experience with Go, this is the most significant source of frustration and friction with Rust. It’s not an insurmountable problem, but you must always be ready to deal with the async monster when it rears its head. In other languages, async is almost invisible. I am a former C and C++ programmer who lived calling into pthread almost every week for a decade. I use async rus…

[deleted]

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#344

Post by rat87 » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

chungy wrote: post #2

Perhaps my biggest critique is that crates.io has no namespacing. Anyone can just claim a global and generic package name and we mostly have to deal with it (unless you avoid using the crates.io repository, but then you'll probably have more problems...). Some of these globally-claimed generic packages are not really the best package to use. Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation, which i…

I don't see the problem. Even with namespaces you'll have

brandonq/xml vs parsers/xml with no clue if one is better then another.

Also possibly with some confusion over whether things with the same name are forks or not. May make it a little more difficult to Google. Why not just have brandon_xml vs xml-parser and have a community list of best and most popular libraries?

I guess the only issue is that some generic/obvious package names are bad packages. That can have been avoided if they banned/self-squated most of the names. I suppose if you use dns namespaces and actually tie it to ownership of the domain name it might make sense but that would also cause issues(what if you forgot to renew the domain?).

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#345

Post by rat87 » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:11 AM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #26

lolinder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation I suspect it was less a reaction against anything and more just following the norms established by most other package managers. NPM, PyPI, RubyGems, Elixir's Hex, Haskell's Cabal... I'm having a hard time thinking of a non-Java package manager that was around at the time Rust came out that didn't have a single, global namespace. Some have tried to…

> I'm having a hard time thinking of a non-Java package manager that was around at the time Rust came out that didn't have a single, global namespace The implication here is that namespaces in package managers weren't a known concept. Outside Java, NPM - probably the biggest at the time - not only supported them but was actively encouraging them due to collective regret around going single-global in the beginning. Co…

What are the benefits?

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#346

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:12 AM UTC

chungy wrote: post #2

Perhaps my biggest critique is that crates.io has no namespacing. Anyone can just claim a global and generic package name and we mostly have to deal with it (unless you avoid using the crates.io repository, but then you'll probably have more problems...). Some of these globally-claimed generic packages are not really the best package to use. Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation, which i…

While Java made that notation famous, it was already used in NeXTSTEP and Objective-C, hence why you will see this all over the place in macOS and derived platforms, on configuration files and services.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#347

Post by rurban » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:12 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #332

lumost wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to get into rust for many years, I'm now in a C/CPP job (after Java/Python/Ruby and other gigs). What I've come to understand is that Rust's lifetime model is very difficult to work with whenever you have a cyclic reference. In C/CPP the same holds, but you deal with it through clever coding - or ignoring the problem and cleaning up memory later. Java, and other GC'd languages just work for these structures.…

What's a frequently encountered case for such cyclic loops? Without details I'm drawn to trying to break the cycle, either by promoting the shared state to a container object for the set, or by breaking it out into it's own object that multiple things can point at.

a parent field.

a doubly linked list

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#348

Post by lifthrasiir » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:14 AM UTC

solomonb wrote: post #337

mjevans wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a frequently encountered case for such cyclic loops? Without details I'm drawn to trying to break the cycle, either by promoting the shared state to a container object for the set, or by breaking it out into it's own object that multiple things can point at.

ASTs

ASTs are one of "nicely behaving" data structures. It is like a archetype of abstract data types pervasive in functional programming languages.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#349

Post by xvedejas » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:15 AM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #334

The clippy bit is a little confusing: > It also looks like (soon) you’ll finally be able to configure global lints for a project. Until now, you had to hack your solution to keep lints consistent for projects. In Wick, we use a script to automatically update inline lint configurations for a few dozen crates. It's trivial to configure global lints per crate . The author's problem comes down to having multiple crates p…

I believe procedural macros always need to be defined in a separate crate, so at least all projects that use procedural macros will have multiple crates

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#350

Post by jodrellblank » Thu, Oct 26, 2023, 6:15 AM UTC

pas wrote: post #312

ericbarrett wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might have been bronze or tin—I read the book a long time ago! That said, burning gasoline or kerosine can be over 2000°C[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_flame_temperature

steel melts around 1600, the engine would blow up waaay before. the problem with that story is that if the "seal" is made from a simple material that melts by the engine heat, then it will not seal for long. (or at all.) but likely it's not what Steinbeck wrote.

At what temperature does copper soften enough to squish into a seal shape?

I seem to remember my dad shimming a cylinder that had lost compression with a copper ring; I was a kid so I don't remember any details except it wasn't intended to melt, and whatever it was intended to do worked and we saw the car still being driven around town fifteen or twenty years after he sold it.