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Was Rust Worth It?

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Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#301

Post by nindalf »

jeremyjh wrote: post #184
lolinder wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. As I noted to another commenter, I'm not trying to say there was no prior art (if nothing else there was Maven), just that they were following the overwhelming majority of mainstream languages at the time.

> just that they were following the overwhelming majority of mainstream languages at the time. They were trying to do better than mainstream languages in other areas and succeeded. IIRC on this front they just decided Ruby's bundler was the bee's knees.

The same developer who worked on bundler also worked on the initial version of cargo. That’s why they’re similar.

And at that time, it was a good idea. Ruby was popular and bundler + gem ecosystem was a big reason for its popularity. No one was worried that Rust might become so popular that it might outgrow the bundler model. That was only a remote possibility to begin with.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#302

Post by suby »

overgard wrote: post #217
andrewstuart wrote: post #104

A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need an AI assistant and won't program without it - AI is far too valuable. If ChatGPT struggles with a programming language that is a big problem. I have had a great experience with ChatGPT with TypeScript, SQL, Python, golang, C++. I tried ChatGPT with Rust and it…

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that a…

It's a rubber duck that talks back. Chat Gpt is amazing for programming. I'm not OP but I've been coding since 2009.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#303

Post by MrRolleyes »

andrewstuart wrote: post #252
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried for a long time for chatgpt to help me write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns. Could not do it. Pasting in an error message, made chatgpt spit out another version of the code with some other error.

Go to ChatGPT and type "write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns". Run it. If there is an error, either debug it or ask ChatGPT to take a different approach. There's something wrong if you can't get it to do this.

Of course that works, but that's not exactly a task that's likely to trip me up or be a bottleneck in my coding efficiency. The things that are are typically either of sufficient complexity i don't even know how to begin describing it to ChatGPT in a useful way, or require enough domain knowledge it's not worth the effort.

Of course, it's still an issue if ChatGPT can't generate trivial rust code, but that seems unrelated to the quality of the language itself.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#304

Post by cmrdporcupine »

cchance wrote: post #198
badrequest wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently tried writing some async Rust to compare the error handling when nested async calls are made to how errors are handled in Go, and it seemed like the trivial example I was trying to write up simply couldn't be done without involving Tokio. That barrier simply doesn't exist in Go, or C#, or Typescript. For instance, you apparently cannot `await` in the main function without a decorator you import from, you gue…

Why are you trying to avoid Tokio lol, tokio is the defacto async runtime in rust, saying you're trying to avoid it is like saying you're trying to avoid async while writing async, somehow people act like if they merged tokio into std and instead of #[tokio::main] or whatever you had to do #[async::main] it would somehow be better. Once you stop fighting the fact that tokio = async rust for 99% of cases, things are q…

Your "lol" is entirely inappropriate.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#305

Post by n3storm »

push-f wrote: post #288
kuon wrote: post #231

I wrote a lot of rust, but after some years it still feels unproductive. I do a lot of zig now and I am like 10 times more productive with it. I can just concentrate on what I want to code and I never have to wonder what tool or what library to use. I know rust gives memory safety and how important that is, but the ergonomic is really bad. Every time I write some rust I feel limited. I always have to search libraries…

> it can be very hard to actually know what method you can call on a struct The rust-analyzer language server can autocomplete the available methods for a value.

depending on the autocompleter feels like asking to code to Chatgpt to me.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#306

Post by cmrdporcupine »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #172
subarctic wrote: post #62

It's only mentioned off hand in one sentence at the end, but have people found that Rust is hard to hire for? In my experience it's relatively easy to filter for good candidates when you're hiring for Rust, whereas, just as a point of contrast, I've noticed it's more difficult to find frontend developers who are good at TypeScript (since a lot of frontend developers just use plain JavaScript).

I don't think it is unusually difficult to find Rust programmers. The challenge is finding Rust programmers who also have expertise in systems software development. Rust was designed to be a systems language but ironically it primarily seems to attract developers that do not have expertise in systems software. This isn't necessarily a problem. C++ and Rust can coexist pretty well in practice, and Rust is a good entry…

Sadly I have found the flip side, too: as someone with a systems software interest/background (I wouldn't say expert), the # of jobs in the Rust ecosystem that are not glorified webdev/microservicing (or worse, crypto) is actually quite small.

So I guess I wouldn't be surprised that the applications are trending that way, too, as that is where growth is happening right now it seems.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#307

Post by push-f »

n3storm wrote: post #305
push-f wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can be very hard to actually know what method you can call on a struct The rust-analyzer language server can autocomplete the available methods for a value.

depending on the autocompleter feels like asking to code to Chatgpt to me.

I disagree, there's a big difference: rust-analyzer is deterministic and 100% accurate while ChatGPT is non-deterministic and hallucinates.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#308

Post by Conscat »

corytheboyd wrote: post #216
chungy wrote: post #2

Perhaps my biggest critique is that crates.io has no namespacing. Anyone can just claim a global and generic package name and we mostly have to deal with it (unless you avoid using the crates.io repository, but then you'll probably have more problems...). Some of these globally-claimed generic packages are not really the best package to use. Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation, which i…

I don’t work with rust on the regular, but this is so annoying with package repositories in general. No don’t use http-server, it’s bad, instead you have to use MuffinTop, it’s better. And then you just have to know that. The concept of sanctioned package names would be interesting, but probably chaotic in practice as the underlying code behind this sort of alias changes over time. This will remain a part of being a…

I think if you get three to five developers who are enthusiastic about X language, their collective knowledge will select good packages.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#309

Post by ogoffart »

fawadasaurus wrote: post #103
chungy wrote: post #2

Perhaps my biggest critique is that crates.io has no namespacing. Anyone can just claim a global and generic package name and we mostly have to deal with it (unless you avoid using the crates.io repository, but then you'll probably have more problems...). Some of these globally-claimed generic packages are not really the best package to use. Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation, which i…

I did some analysis on crates.io to find the top name squatters. Then I did some calculations and found that the top name squatter created their crates at a rate of about one ever 30 seconds for a period of a week straight. I send the analysis to the crates.io team and pointed that they have a no-automation policy. They told me that it was not sufficient proof that someone was squatting those names. That's my problem…

> they have a no-automation policy

What's that? I have scripts that automate publishing of new release of my crates. And I think many projects have.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#310

Post by kaycey2022 »

wyldfire wrote: post #269
fsckboy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, HN hides secrets automatically ******* is my password, but you can't see it. Type your password back, and I won't be able to see it. Try it!

I'm not sure it's working the way you described: hunter2

It’s working. I really can’t see it. All I see is ****
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