Ctrl+f "pedestrian" Only one result and it's not even about roundabouts. This is how American traffic engineering is done.
Is your argument that roundabouts are bad for pedestrians? If so why?
Safety benefits of roundabouts
201–210 of 409 posts
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#202This article makes it sound like traffic lights are more common than roundabouts in the US. In Australia, in most small to mid-sized towns I've been to, roundabouts seem to be much more common than traffic lights. Traffic lights are mostly used in densely populated areas (e.g. town/city centers) because roundabouts take up more space.
>This article makes it sound like traffic lights are more common than roundabouts in the US.
That's because they are.
And speaking as an American driver: I prefer traffic lights. They require no thinking beyond being remotely aware of your surroundings, you can see where you want to go, and there's no thinking involved other than making your way across the intersection when it's your turn.
Roundabouts involve far more mental load that I do not care for: I need to gauge if and when I can merge, because there's no traffic light controlling ingress and egress. I need to keep track of the exit I want that I usually can't see until the last moment. I waste my time going around again if I confuse my exit, which can't happen with traffic light intersections.
TL;DR: Traffic lights are simpler, easier, and ultimately faster as far as I'm concerned.
If the safety of crossing pedestrians is the concern, then I have a simple solution: A bridge over the intersection connecting all four pedestrian corners. Somewhat common sight in Japanese cities.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#203Ctrl+f "pedestrian" Only one result and it's not even about roundabouts. This is how American traffic engineering is done.
Is your argument that roundabouts are bad for pedestrians? If so why?
The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#204The authors have never driven in Boston. I grew up and learned to drive there. It is literally the scariest traffic feature of Boston. If you go in a roundabout (or rotary as we call them), you need a will prepared (and it's a good idea to have hugged as many relatives as possible beforehand).
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, they're absolutely horrid for pedestrians. Drivers anticipating their merge into roundabout are often too distracted to notice pedestrians intending to cross, and any pedestrian crossing the outflow of a roundabout can trigger a traffic backup that interferes with the flow of the circle itself and surprise drivers who expect it to stay moving. They have their benefits in some intersections, but they also have tr…
I disagree. As a pedestrian, I only have to worry about cars coming from 2 directions (on to/off the roundabout) instead of 4 at an intersection. I'm confused by your comment that drivers merging into a roundabout are too distracted. As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. I only have to look for pedestrians crossing in front of me and cars coming from the left. When coming off th…
> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. I only have to look for pedestrians crossing in front of me and cars coming from the left. When coming off the roundabout I only have to check for pedestrians crossing the exit I want to take.
I find I sometimes miss pedestrians waiting to cross from the right, because I must look left to merge with oncoming traffic and it's hard to look hard left and to the right at the same time.
At a signalized intersection, if all parties follow the signals, there's often no situation where I'm supposed to be looking in both directions for conflicts.
If I travel straight through the intersection on a green light, there should be no conflict with pedestrians (although one must always be alert). There may be a stopped or slow vehicle in front if the exit is congested. If an unprotected left turn is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict while I traverse the first half of the intersection, and if right on red is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict as I traverse the second half of the intersection. It's of course useful to be aware of potential for other parties to violate their signals, but look mostly straight but to the left for the first half and mostly straight but to right for the second half works for turns and red light violators ... and mostly straight is pretty good for pedestrians crossing against the light.
For turns, pedestrians are in the same direction you're heading, and often the same direction you're looking. Right on red is an exception, but one typically stops behind the line and looks around for pedestrians before crossing the line and looking for an opportunity to merge in.
For safety, pedestrian crossings should be moved away from roundabouts, where drivers will see them better, but then that increases the path length for pedestrians and acceptance is low.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're right about single vs. 2+ lanes. It doesn't matter how many diagram signs they put up before the roundabout entry, people will NOT understand a roundabout with more than one lane, and under no circumstance will people going straight through realize they have to yield to someone coming from the opposite side who's going 270° around the circle and exiting from the inner lane. Roundabouts are fine if the…
> people will NOT understand a roundabout with more than one lane We have tons of 2-lane ones and everyone understands them…
Our town has loads of them too, and everyone think they understand them. Still accidents are common because people think it's ok to just go straight through by changing lane to inner and then directly exiting without yielding to the ones crossing their path in the outer lane.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure exactly what you mean by freely, but in most popular roundabout designs you can exit from the inner lane. A "standard" two lane roundabout will have two lanes entering AND exiting. You never change lanes in roundabouts, at least where I'm from. Only in a massive multi-lane roundabout (that's at that point more like a ring road) would you ever change lanes to exit. e.g. for a standard two lane roundabout with…
The car from the inner lane swiping into the car in the outer lane is the exact issue I'm talking about. The problem is when drivers enter in the left/inner lane, fully intending to take the first exit. If they proceed to exit directly from the inner lane, without first changing lanes, signalling, or yielding to outer traffic, they would intersect with a car in the outer lane innocently heading to the second exit. In…
It’s still safer than a normal intersection.
Roundabouts prevent HIGH SPEED t-bone and head-on collisions.
The difference in safety is easily worth the “cognitive load” of a 2-lane roundabout.
I think drivers will get used to them and in practice there will be few collisions.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#208Safety aside, roundabouts lower traffic significantly by never forcing cars to stop. Congestion increases as cars need to stop because of the inevitable latency propagating along the tails, and having more than one traditional intersections along the way can only make things even worse, so any solution to prevent cars from slowing down to a stop would mitigate those effects.
They’re often worse in heavy traffic situations. Especially if you have two entrances that feed heavy traffic into the roundabout at peak times, the one that has to yield can end up basically locked out of the flow.
If the heavy traffic or the locked out traffic does a right turn in the roundabout, then a solution to this is a bypass lane. This works very well for letting traffic through and opening up the roundabout.
Multi-lane roundabouts help when theres a clog downstream of the roundabout.
Roundabouts are also great if you have more than 4 roads meeting.
But yeah, in general roundabouts shine the most in low-traffic intersections that previously had lights. They make driving in those are so much nicer, drivers basically never have to stop.
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is your argument that roundabouts are bad for pedestrians? If so why?
The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian.
(Warning: Anecdata)
There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthought... it sucked.
They recently simplified it down to a single car lane and a single bike lane with priority (unsignaled) crosswalks at every entrance. It's slightly slower to drive through, but much less stressful. It's a joy to bike through. As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me.
So, in my head: single-lane roundabout > intersection > multi-lane roundabout
Re: Safety benefits of roundabouts
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
The number of drivers who think you can freely exit from the inner lane suggests otherwise.
They are right to. Simplified greatly, the further in the roundabout you are, the right of way is yours. The exception is you can obviously not shoot straight from the left lane to the first exit. In a 2 lane roundabout it is very simple. Enter in the left lane and you can exit 2nd or 3d, enter in the right lane and you can exit 1st or 2nd. Where it gets complicated is roundabouts with 2 lane entry but only 1 lane in…
I guess this is depending on country. In Sweden you are allowed to exit from the inner lane. But you have to yield to traffic in the outer lane because you are doing a lane change even if you go straight for the inner exit in a two lane exit. The outer lane is not causing the accident, they do not have to yield and they are allowed to go to the third, fourth or fifth exit fully in the outer lane if they want to. You just have to make sure you don't hit them on the way out.
This however does not stop accidents to happen all the time in this situation because of drivers trying to get past the traffic jam by going inner lane in high speed and then exit in front of traffic trying to get to next exit. And mostly without blinking at all.