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Was Rust Worth It?

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Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#241

Post by andrewstuart »

overgard wrote: post #217
andrewstuart wrote: post #104

A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need an AI assistant and won't program without it - AI is far too valuable. If ChatGPT struggles with a programming language that is a big problem. I have had a great experience with ChatGPT with TypeScript, SQL, Python, golang, C++. I tried ChatGPT with Rust and it…

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that a…

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding?

You're not using the tools available to make you a better and more productive programmer?

If you're not using AI as part of your daily workflow you are burning time and money and not maximising your potential.

If I was your team lead I'd give you a warning, same as I would if you didn't use an IDE or source control.

Being ignorant of programming productivity tools isn't something to be proud of.

You should have been up to speed by now on using ChatGPT as part of your daily workflow - it's been out since the start of the year.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#242

Post by Yodel0914 »

oldbbsnickname wrote: post #71

Mostly yes and good. One thing I don't appreciate is nonorthogonality of certain uses and control structures that cannot be refactored into a function despite structural equivalence without introducing a multiple borrow conflict.

I've always assumed this was because of my inexperience with the language, but I find this frustrating, too.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#243

Post by epage »

echelon wrote: post #111
fawadasaurus wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did some analysis on crates.io to find the top name squatters. Then I did some calculations and found that the top name squatter created their crates at a rate of about one ever 30 seconds for a period of a week straight. I send the analysis to the crates.io team and pointed that they have a no-automation policy. They told me that it was not sufficient proof that someone was squatting those names. That's my problem…

There's a secret effort in the Rust community to supplant Crates.io and create an entirely new package ecosystem with proper namespacing, security, and much better community. Not naming names, but I know several people working to put Crates.io out to pasture. There's a level of playing nice with them for the time being (eg. build reproducibility), but it's only KTLO. Crates.io needs to die for Rust to thrive. They're…

I find this interersting as most namespacing solutions would need the cargo team involved and I've heard nothing about this.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#244

Post by jeremyjh »

trealira wrote: post #233
oconnor663 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that source: > Inline assembly is not supported on the ARM and x64 processors.

Oh, my bad. I should have read the source more closely. I hadn't realized only 32-bit x86 processors were supported.

That's hilarious. Like, the compiler team had ONE GUY that believed in and developed this feature and retired in 1999.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#245

Post by [deleted] »

overgard wrote: post #217
andrewstuart wrote: post #104

A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need an AI assistant and won't program without it - AI is far too valuable. If ChatGPT struggles with a programming language that is a big problem. I have had a great experience with ChatGPT with TypeScript, SQL, Python, golang, C++. I tried ChatGPT with Rust and it…

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that a…

[deleted]

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#246

Post by fbdab103 »

HKH2 wrote: post #157
throwaway914 wrote: post #7

I feel like Rust finally broke the idea that programmers should be in complete control and completely conscious of everything the compiler is doing. It hasn't been that way in decades, compilers are freaking magic. But Rust undid a lot of that with borrowing. People became comfortable with the compiler knowing better than them. I just wish we could relax further: We should never be explicitly iterating forward over a…

> Give me rusty bash. Bash with types (especially floats), fewer edge cases, functions with explicit parameters, simple command line flags...

Now you have me curious - where do you see the need for floats in shell? You are more creative than myself, because I am struggling to come up with a situation where I would lean on this. A "path" type would be by far more useful to my work.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#247

Post by ericbarrett »

overgard wrote: post #217
andrewstuart wrote: post #104

A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need an AI assistant and won't program without it - AI is far too valuable. If ChatGPT struggles with a programming language that is a big problem. I have had a great experience with ChatGPT with TypeScript, SQL, Python, golang, C++. I tried ChatGPT with Rust and it…

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that a…

I'm pretty shocked by the grandparent, but on reflection, I think this is the future.

In The Grapes of Wrath, Steinbeck writes about the travails of a family's trip to California in search of work during the Great Depression in the 1930s. Tom Joad, the father, fixes the compression in his blown engine by wrapping a copper wire around the cylinder, then running the motor until it melts and recreates the seal. It's such an ingenious hack, and reflects such deep knowledge of how an engine works, that it's stuck with me for decades.

Today, I bet fewer than 5% of vehicle owners even know how to check their tire pressure. But it's not like fewer people are driving, or cars are more likely to be found by the side of the road with a blown engine—it's just far less necessary to know these things. I think programming will go this way, too.

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#248

Post by symlinkk »

tootie wrote: post #226
WatchDog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maven and Java really don’t get enough credit for how well it’s dependency management works. So many inferior dependency management systems for other languages have come along later, and learned nothing from those that came before it.

100% agree. It's unbelievable what a PITA it is dealing with pip or npm compared to Maven even 10 years ago. The descriptors could get convoluted but you could also edit them in an IDE that knew the expected tokens to make things happen.

What’s so hard about “npm install” and “package.json”. It’s dead simple

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#249

Post by beautron »

jmyeet wrote: post #140
lolinder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it was a reaction against the Java-style reverse DNS notation I suspect it was less a reaction against anything and more just following the norms established by most other package managers. NPM, PyPI, RubyGems, Elixir's Hex, Haskell's Cabal... I'm having a hard time thinking of a non-Java package manager that was around at the time Rust came out that didn't have a single, global namespace. Some have tried to…

I'm honestly astounded at how badly many languages have implemented dependency management, particularly when Java basically got this right almost 20 years ago (Maven) and others have made the mistakes that Java fixed. With Maven you get: 1. Flexible version (of requirements) specification; 2. Yes, source code had domain names in packages but that came from Java and you can technically separate that in the dependency…

> Later comes along Go. No dependency management at the start. There ended up being two ways of specifying dependencies. At least one included putting github.io/username/package into your code. That username changes and all your code has to change. Awful design.

"github.io/username/package" is using a domain name, just like Java. Changing the username part is like changing the domain name--I don't see how this is any worse in Go than in Java.

If you don't like that there's a username in there, then don't put one in there to begin with. Requiring a username has nothing to do with Go vs. Java, but rather is because the package's canonical location is hosted on Github (which requires a username).

I don't know why so many programmer's use a domain they don't control as the official home of their projects--it seems silly to me (especially for bigger, more serious projects).

Re: Was Rust Worth It?

#250

Post by adastra22 »

fwip wrote: post #159
adastra22 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty much the same issue all languages have, that async functions are colored. I don’t think it is unique to rust. Algebraic effects would solve this, but I don’t know any language other than OCaml that is working on that approach.

Unison [1] has algebraic effects as a first-class feature. They call them "abilities" there. You can make async about as transparent/opaque as you want it. Docs on abilities in [2]. [1]: https://www.unison-lang.org/ [2]: https://www.unison-lang.org/learn/language-reference/abiliti...

Does anyone actually use unison in real life?
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