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Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

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Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#471

Post by dymk »

ViktorRay wrote: post #394
dymk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because at some point you decide that some threshold is useful to have, and stop sealioning on the internet about it

I disagree that the poster you replied to was “sealioning”. It seems he was using rhetorical questions to try to make an argument. Basically he was following The Socratic Method. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method Essentially using questions to challenge assumptions in the form of argumentative dialogue. This is a legitimate form of having a debate and it has been used for thousands of years. To compare…

It's a bunch of rapid-fire questions about a topic that's been well trodden, and on top of that just a bunch of whattaboutisms. It's classic sealioning.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#472

Post by greycol »

cheriot wrote: post #427
greycol wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to 1) The prisoners dillema is a pretty basic example of how the best possible co-ordinated action is not necesarily the best possible individual action. i.e. other kids not on social media/ your kid not on social media Δ0 happiness other kids not on social media/ your kid on social media Δ-3 happiness other kids on social media/ your kid on social media Δ-10 happiness other kids on social media/ your kid not not…

Judge: Why do you let your kids use social media? Parent: All the other kids are on it. ... PS There's some in between, https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103340

To reply just as flippantly: We could take the same aproach to alcohol and gambling, drop all age restrictions and put all the responsibility on the parents, then businesses will truly be able to run efficiently.

Of course good parents have to be involved in raising there kids well but that doesn't mean we shouldn't subsidide education or restrict companies from sending kids down coal mines(even if they really want the money). Mostly because good parents can fail and bad parents exist and if society isn't going to aim for turning kids into good adults then it'll just get worse generation on generation.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#473

Post by cscurmudgeon »

InSteady wrote: post #456
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #419

Hmm, interesting, nothing against TikTok or the Fentanyl crisis?

I mean, various groups are pursuing action on both. The US government is a pretty big institution. It tends to do more than one thing at a time, you know.

Cool, when was the last time 33 states or more coordinated against TikTok?

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#474

Post by tremon »

pauldenton wrote: post #442
wordpad25 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural stigma against mental health issues is extremely ubiquitous outside the US This causes mental health issues to go unaddressed, but, ironically, it also helps in a way, because peer pressure certainly helps reinforce individual discipline to develop techniques to keep it together. Peer pressure is a very powerful motivator. For example fat shaming is certainly bullying but it's also certainly effective at dis…

A lot of Asian countries are shame based on the Shame - Guilt - Fear spectrum of cultures, and have some of the lowest obesity rates. I wouldn't be surprised if these countries have less obese people and more suicides of people who feel they cannot fit in

They have fewer obese people because their diet is healthier than the average US diet.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#475

Post by distract8901 »

LargeTomato wrote: post #447

If I let my kid have so much candy that they stop being able to control themselves and then they give themselves childhood obesity or diabetes is that the candy makers' faults? If I encourage my kid to engage in the dangerous sport of snowboarding (this is an analogy) and they take it way too far despite obvious signs of egregious injury to their person is that the ski resort's fault? No, at some point it is the pare…

The more correct analogy is advertising heavily to kids that you give out free candy, and then give them so much they get sick.

Parents can't surveil kids 24/7. It simply isn't possible. You have to have some trust that your society is a safe place for kids to grow up. Independence is an important part of growing up. Making your own decisions with or without your parent's approval.

Don't you remember being 13 and wanting to make your own decisions about your life? At some point a kid becomes an individual and they will make their own choices whether you like it or not.

Blaming parents for societal treatment of children is the same as blaming climate change on people who don't recycle. It's utter nonsense because the outside factors are massively larger than any individual.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#476

Post by nineteen999 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #469
nineteen999 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the person operating the jackhammer go to a golf course, or watch someone operating a jackhammer and then visit a golf course myself? Your sentence is ambiguous. Are you trying to say that you think that some manual labor roles are overpaid? Why can't a jackhammer operator play golf if they want to? In my country an entry level jackhammer operator makes about $60K and an experienced one about $100K. Doesn't sou…

I meant, compare the incomes of the jackhammer operator, who is working very hard, and the people on the golf course, who are playing golf.

I mean I get your point ... rich and lazy executives often play golf, but my buddy plays golf and he's a manager for a crew at a painting company. Hardly a millionaire. Perhaps you're thinking of private golf courses which are sometimes very expensive. Public ones generally aren't.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#477

Post by barfingclouds »

Toolbox1337 wrote: post #377
failbuffer wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good book on this is The Coddling of the American Mind. It argues several factors (including social media, safteyism, and the decline in unstructured play time) are responsible for the significant rise in young adult mental health issues that started around 2012. Good read.

In my opinion, it's largely the result of poor economic conditions and rising inequality endemic to a broken system. Young people today are keenly aware that they will have significantly lesser quality of life than the generation that preceded them, while simultaneously having to work much harder to gain a fraction of it. Communism may have fallen over in the Soviet Union, but it looks as if Capitalism is destined to…

[dead]

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#478

Post by cheriot »

greycol wrote: post #472
cheriot wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judge: Why do you let your kids use social media? Parent: All the other kids are on it. ... PS There's some in between, https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103340

To reply just as flippantly: We could take the same aproach to alcohol and gambling, drop all age restrictions and put all the responsibility on the parents, then businesses will truly be able to run efficiently. Of course good parents have to be involved in raising there kids well but that doesn't mean we shouldn't subsidide education or restrict companies from sending kids down coal mines(even if they really want t…

The approach to alcohol isn't all that different: It's entirely legal for a parent serve alcohol to their kid. If it were possible for each store to determine the parent's wish's, we'd probably have that.

Parents control the phone and the phone plan. Parental controls that exist today can set how long an app can be open per day. What's the outcome from suing Meta that's more effective?

I agree that policy should protect kids and to do that it needs to be effective, not just cathartic.

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#479

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

swatcoder wrote: post #295
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #277

So if your app gets too "good" and users use it too much, then you have broken the law? Interesting logic to think through.

If you’re filthy rich and become aware that your app is causing harm, and then don’t work to address it, you’ll want to start warming up the lawyers and lobbyists, yes.

What level of “rich” triggers the law?

What level of “harm” triggers the law?

Am I harming you if I make an online store and you browse it too much? How do I know what too much is? How much browsing of a social network is too much?

I don’t understand how you think this is all crystal clear :)

Re: Meta sued by states over harmful youth marketing

#480

Post by zestyping »

kridsdale3 wrote: post #389
ergocoder wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not even about employee promotion. You can't ban a communication tool. That is just absurd.

I worked at Meta for 7 years, focusing on Youth Engagement for a number of those years. We had incredible sociology research on what is good and healthy for kids online. We were not allowed to build any of it because the Director and VP class only rewarded "number go up" and punished any other activity. I quit the Youth group in frustration because they just wouldn't let me build or even code.

Do you regret having devoted so much of your time and energy to the mission of that company?
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