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Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

cloudflarestatus.com

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Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people blame Cloudflare and Amazon for centralizing everything. I actually disagree; the centralization is a symptom of severe, systemic, unfixable flaws in the design of the internet itself. At least we didn't let AOL define internet.

I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate on that. (Edit: I see you elaborated somewhat in another comment posted before I finished this comment) I tend to think centralization is more about people's tendencies than it is internet design. As I see it, centralization on the internet happens as the emergent behavior of all of the elements in the system and the forces that exist. In other words, it's the natural result of incen…

True; but let's imagine everyone self-hosted. Perfectly decentralized. As I edited another comment to reflect, imagine if you took out just three companies.

Level 3 Communications / Lumen; AT&T; Verizon Enterprise.

With those three, you've knocked 2.35 million km, or 1.46 million miles, of fiber optic offline. That's over half of the US backbone in those three companies. Comcast "only" has 0.15 million miles for the sake of comparison. The internet would crash and burn immediately to speeds not seen since the dial-up era. There's nothing we can do about that. Cloudflare and AWS centralizing everything is actually, statistically, less risky than backbone attacks. If you succeeded in knocking down all of the big seven at once; you've got about 80-90% of the backbone offline plus all of the online cloud providers with direct connections to them; at which point the internet would cease to function in any practical sense.

Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#62
post #14

If you’re waiting for the inevitable “this is why we shouldn't centralize everything”; this is that comment. As much as I like cloudflare and easy to use stuff, lets be a little bit mindful of the blast radius of highly centralized services which are even more complex to operate due to the scale of the deployment and problem scope. luckily this time its just administrative interfaces and supplemental services that as…

Is it really that bad? Services go down for a few minutes, maybe a few hours? A thousand other companies are down at the same time. Grab lunch, come back, and it'll have fixed itself. Nobody blames you because it's just another provider outage -- whether it's Cloudflare or AWS or Microsoft or Gmail doesn't really matter, it's a convenient outsourcing of not just network admin but also blame. The alternative is, what,…

I don't think the problem is a few minutes of down time but all services going down at the same time. You can't order food (Uber down), your email down, your TV down, maybe even the traffic control?

Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that bad? Services go down for a few minutes, maybe a few hours? A thousand other companies are down at the same time. Grab lunch, come back, and it'll have fixed itself. Nobody blames you because it's just another provider outage -- whether it's Cloudflare or AWS or Microsoft or Gmail doesn't really matter, it's a convenient outsourcing of not just network admin but also blame. The alternative is, what,…

I don't think the problem is a few minutes of down time but all services going down at the same time. You can't order food (Uber down), your email down, your TV down, maybe even the traffic control?

Ok, and...?

(Edit: Not to be snarky, but really, so what if that happens? Same thing happens if there's a power outage in your neighborhood. Is it a big deal?)

Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#65
post #59

Downtime happens - no one is happy about it but it comes with the job and downtime will happen whether you use cloud or run on prem. Cloudflare at least accurately reflects the incident on their status page. Often dashboards will show everything green despite the service being down. In these moments communication is critical and Cloudflare does it well especially as we all know when it comes to the post mortem. They…

Has Akamai had a global outage? They are the largest player in the market and i don't recall one global outage from them.

Google is a friend :)

Looks like there were 2 outages[0], one in June and one in July of 2021.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/websites-airlines-banks-t...

Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Akamai had a global outage? They are the largest player in the market and i don't recall one global outage from them.

Google is a friend :) Looks like there were 2 outages[0], one in June and one in July of 2021. [0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/websites-airlines-banks-t...

These would be the only ones big enough and long-lasting enough to make the news for non-techies.

Your regular, run-of-the-mill outages aren't reported in Reuters... but are likely much more common than you'd believe.

Re: Cloudflare API, dashboard, tunnels down

#70
post #31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, cloudflare or AWS down means half the internet doesn't work at all. The half that works - routing around problematic networks - isn't very helpful when the problematic networks are the useful ones.

Depends what you want to get to. HN doesn't use any centralised services. If someone chooses to host their service relying on a single unreliable point of failure that's on them. Plenty more hosts on the web.

Well technically they do, but honestly the number of companies that need to worry about redundant DNS is probably .001%. It does matter for the some people, but as someone from SRE once said "100% availability is the wrong target for basically everything".

dig SOA news.ycombinator.com

; > DiG 9.18.16-1-Debian > SOA news.ycombinator.com ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;news.ycombinator.com. IN SOA

;; AUTHORITY SECTION: ycombinator.com. 900 IN SOA ns-225.awsdns-28.com. awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com. 1 7200 900 1209600 86400

;; Query time: 39 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) (UDP) ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 25 10:52

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