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Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

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Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#171

Post by oblio »

zyang wrote: post #54
oblio wrote: post #18

For me the saddest thing is not Windows Phone going away, it's Nokia not going all the way with their Qt based Linux distro, Meego. I had a Nokia N9 smartphone, the UI was amazing. It took 5 (I think?) years for iOS and Android to sort of copy the gesture based UI, badly. Damn internal corporate politics at Nokia.

Blackberry went all the way with QNX and it didn't pan out either. There just wasn't room for a third player.

The third player would have been Linux + Qt.

Much easier sell than random new OS.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#172

Post by m_mueller »

pjmlp wrote: post #159
m_mueller wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

such as? If I remember correctly (has been a few years), over the last 15-20 years there were iOS: UIKit -> SwiftUI MacOS: AppKit -> Catalyst -> SwiftUI there was definitely some churn within each one of those from version to version, but no complete rewrite needed afaik.

I advise then to pay attention to Apple developer podcasts for rants regarding each of them, and porting issues, you can start with ATP.

I listen to almost every ATP. I know the rants. None of them were along the lines of: Apple forces me to completely rewrite Overcast, or else it won't work on the next iPhone.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#173

Post by VyseofArcadia »

xbmcuser wrote: post #95
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

That's not how you bring in adoption or sell products. They should have build something amazing using Kinect that everyone would have wanted one and not cared about buying it separately. Then if everyone had one then devs would have come. But they themselves did not have some amazing use for it.

That's naïve. No matter how amazing your launch game is, a large fraction of your install base will just never bother. Maybe they don't have the money, or they're just frugal. Maybe they're skeptical and reluctant to upgrade. Maybe they just don't like whatever genre of game.

It has been tried again and again and again. Optional console accessories and upgrades just never have enough of an install base to attract a critical mass of devs.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#174

Post by VyseofArcadia »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #128
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

No, there is absolutely no way to integrate the Kinect into games in a meaningful way. Name just one example where it was done so that you would think "wow this has potential". Throwing grenades by gesture in call of duty? Biggest LOL ever. When I'm playing a competitive multiplayer title, I want precise, quick controls, and not let go of my controller to gesture around like a brain-damaged monkey. With Kinect, you h…

We'll never know because it was never really tried. With novel tech, there needs to be plenty of experimentation.

The market did not try quite a few things with Kinect. Most publishers put out a game, one single game, presumably subsidized by MS, and then went back to making games for the base console because there was not a Kinect install base.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#175

Post by VyseofArcadia »

flohofwoe wrote: post #141
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

> The original Kinect was just such an optional accessory... The Xbox One was then tightly integrated with the Kinect, but that was such an unpopular move that they eventually gave up (first by no longer requiring the Kinect to be connected [1], then by no longer shipping a Kinect with each Xbox [2]) - so it's not for lack of trying. The thing was just unpopular with Xbox users. ...also as an Xbox 360 user at that ti…

From the first article,

> Microsoft is making another Xbox One policy change by allowing gamers to use the upcoming console without Kinect.

> upcoming

They did not try. There was no trying. It was not eventual. They folded before it ever came to market.

And the thing already had worse performance than the PS4, so dropping the Kinect really meant just having an inferior product with no product differentiation.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#176

Post by userinanother »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #93
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

Microsoft chickened out because Sony was absolutely slaughtering them in sales by being $100 cheaper. Granted price isn’t the only reason - MS’s self-inflicted bad PRs and slightly lower graphical performance of the XB1 - but it really wasn’t helping. At the end of the day, their core demographic wasn’t interested in the gimmick that was the Kinect.

I hope they learned that lesson and now have at least 10% more power than Sony. It doesn’t really matter but early adopters drool about minor performance differences.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#177

Post by iforgotpassword »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #174
iforgotpassword wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is absolutely no way to integrate the Kinect into games in a meaningful way. Name just one example where it was done so that you would think "wow this has potential". Throwing grenades by gesture in call of duty? Biggest LOL ever. When I'm playing a competitive multiplayer title, I want precise, quick controls, and not let go of my controller to gesture around like a brain-damaged monkey. With Kinect, you h…

We'll never know because it was never really tried. With novel tech, there needs to be plenty of experimentation. The market did not try quite a few things with Kinect. Most publishers put out a game, one single game, presumably subsidized by MS, and then went back to making games for the base console because there was not a Kinect install base.

> We'll never know because it was never really tried. With novel tech, there needs to be plenty of experimentation.

I call bs, the original Kinect was a commercial success and around for long enough. The tech was there, casual gamers were there, anyone could've picked it up and release an awesome AAA game with kinect to conquer the existing gaming audience. The price of the Kinect quickly dropped to 100$ after the initial price of 150$, which any serious gamer would've spent without hesitation. How is it Microsoft's fault that nobody did create such a killer app? Again, give me an example of anything that had at least potential. Or if you're that convinced it would've worked, you must have come up with your own ideas over the years, right?

> The market did not try quite a few things with Kinect.

Hit me.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#178

Post by lotsofpulp »

steve1977 wrote: post #113
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #57

They’ve practically given up on Windows, too, considering it stays put while macOS continues year by year to improve by adding useful features and ecosystem integration.

I’ve been using macOS at home for about 23 years now, but what was the last really useful new feature they added?

Microsoft still has no equivalent to the Preview app. Signing and filling out PDFs is a common use case.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#179

Post by oblio »

hahn-kev wrote: post #169
zyang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry went all the way with QNX and it didn't pan out either. There just wasn't room for a third player.

Yeah no one would make apps for 3rd place, Android already has the problem of being the 2nd target for many new apps. It's worth it for services but a lot of times the Apple app is better because users pay more.

You're looking at everything through the present lense.

Android wasn't in full swing back then. Linux + Qt could have been built up into an amazing mobile OS. I'd argue Android could have ended up as the 3rd place OS.

Nokia just needed to switch to being the premier Linux + Qt phone maker instead of the only one + trying to lock everything up on top of Linux + Qt.

Re: Satya Nadella admits giving up on Windows Phone and mobile was a mistake

#180

Post by rasz »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #86
jnwatson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft tried the Kinect for 13 years. How long are they supposed to let a product run? It was a cool tech solution in search of a problem.

You're glossing over a big part of the story. It is hard, really, really hard, to convince game developers and publishers to make games that require an optional accessory. It's been tried again and again and it is never more than a mild success and usually an abject failure. They want to target the base platform, which will always have a dramatically larger install base. Thr original Kinect was just such an optional…

Kinect GEL Ride "I WONDER IF THIS GAME HAS AUTO-STEERING. WHAT DO YOU THINK?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo

You are free to pay $100 for gimmicks all you want.

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