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Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

ryanfunduk.com

21–30 of 93 posts

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#21

Maybe it doesn't matter, but I didn't see anywhere in the article why Ryan chooses not to drink. Obviously, his own choice with what to choose to put in his body. But I have definitely wondered about the influence of the culture on those who don't drink for cultural or religious reasons (e.g. Muslim, Mormon) Are we losing talented people who don't want to be part of that aspect of the culture? Protip: on nights when…

I don't think why he doesn't drink should have any bearing on it. He feels excluded from the culture, and it doesn't matter whether that's because he's religious, an alcoholic, etc.

Similarly, one shouldn't have to pretend to be drinking to enjoy a night in the pub (note, I'm a non-drinker who feels perfectly at home in the pub).

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#22
post #19

What's next, "I feel excluded because I'm a naturist"? The author seems to be uncomfortable with drinking and seems to be projecting his discomfort on the people at these conferences. I go to social functions all the time where other people are drinking and I'm not — sometimes it's awkward, sometimes it's great fun anyway (honestly, that's true of dry events too). If that's not his bag, cool, but it's hard to find an…

My actionable suggestions are to distance the event itself from the open bar that occurs afterwards. I definitely don't think people shouldn't drink in general.

I also don't think I was comparing it to creating a hostile environment where women feel objectified - I was saying it contributes to a hostile environment for lots of people.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#23

The comparison to sexism is pretty offensive to me (even though you try to minimize it early in the article, yet bring it up again via a link at the end). You're privileged to have the option to just not go to the party after the conference - women don't get to just "not be women".

Hi, I'm sorry you got that from the article. I knew it was going to be an issue (which is where the disclaimer came from) and it definitely felt like a losing battle in a way, and that people were going to see me drawing a comparison no matter what in the last few sections. Do you think I should remove the last link?

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#24
I'm not really a conference-goer but I thought the parties were kind of the point. I'll go see someone famous like http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/musings.html out of sheer tourist curiosity, but if you're just some guy, I'd rather read what you have to say (and unlimited followups) at my leisure than sit through the lecture format. A dry meet&greet could work, but only if there's a critical mass of interesting people who are equally comfortable doing that while sober (i.e., not using a buzz to damp social anxiety).

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#25
Re: Brogrammers

I don't think that drinking has anything to do with the brogrammer trend. Drinking was around before the brogrammer trend and it's going to be around after. The author states that drinking might be the cause of the brogrammer trend but the offers nothing to support that claim and does not elaborate further.

Nobody is discussing drinking as a cause of this because it's not.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#26
I don't have a good time/don't get as much as I could out of some conferences because of this issue. Due to a medical condition I have a sensitivity to chemicals. Just smelling alcohol (or cigarette smoke, detergents, cleaning products, ...) makes me ill. It's not something that I--as some of the commenters here have advised--can learn to accept.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#27
I think the tech bloggers need to harden the fuck up. The whining is too much to bear.

A note from Hitchens:

“Hitch: making rules about drinking can be the sign of an alcoholic,' as Martin Amis once teasingly said to me. (Adorno would have savored that, as well.) Of course, watching the clock for the start-time is probably a bad sign, but here are some simple pieces of advice for the young. Don't drink on an empty stomach: the main point of the refreshment is the enhancement of food. Don't drink if you have the blues: it's a junk cure. Drink when you are in a good mood. Cheap booze is a false economy. It's not true that you shouldn't drink alone: these can be the happiest glasses you ever drain. Hangovers are another bad sign, and you should not expect to be believed if you take refuge in saying you can't properly remember last night. (If you really don't remember, that's an even worse sign.) Avoid all narcotics: these make you more boring rather than less and are not designed—as are the grape and the grain—to enliven company. Be careful about up-grading too far to single malt Scotch: when you are voyaging in rough countries it won't be easily available. Never even think about driving a car if you have taken a drop. It's much worse to see a woman drunk than a man: I don't know quite why this is true but it just is. Don't ever be responsible for it.”

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not at JSConf this year)

#30
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sexist to assume all women have problems with conferences simply because they're women, or that we all think the same. Just sayin'.

I realized that I sounded that way after I was unable to edit it :-/ Expressing meaning via written text = tricky.

I'm sure you meant well. This is simply what happens when people make mountains out of miniature molehills, repeatedly and ludicrously, all over the internet.
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