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CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

arstechnica.com

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Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#181

Post by mindslight »

tptacek wrote: post #121
maxerickson wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess some people will still (try to) make it themselves, but last time it came up here someone posted about how mass production has just moved on to some other synthesis that isn't dependent on buying a precursor in small retail quantities: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37499106

Again: the issue isn't that you can't mass-produce methamphetamine without pseudoephedrine; at scale, it's presumably far, far easier to produce it without using pseudoephedrine as a precursor. The issue is that pseudoephedrine-based meth production is a particularly damaging kind of production, in the sense of burning down buildings, causing distinctive kinds of crime, and producing an even more dangerous product.

It is far far far easier, less hazardous, and less violent when methamphetamine is just made at an appropriate factory. But this simple approach is incompatible with the self-perpetuating authoritarian impulses of law makers and law enforcement.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#182

Post by technothrasher »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #173
pdonis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are actually congested, go to the pharmacy counter and get Pseudoephedrine Yes, that's what works for me. And of course it used to be available OTC until the government decided to control access to it because of fears of meth.

I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, it was just behind the counter/required an ID to track if you're grabbing a pack from every Walgreens in a 50 mile radius in a single night

> I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect.

Really? I couldn't find any data from that far back, but data from 2009 on shows that meth usage, overdose, and arrests climb pretty dramatically pretty much every year.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#183

Post by phpisthebest »

pyrophane wrote: post #90

My understanding is that they are only removing products that ONLY contain Phenylephrine, which means they will still sell it when it is part of multiple-ingredient formulations, which are in themselves kind of a scam. For example, many OTC "severe cold/flu" formulations contain: - Acetaminophen. Potentially helpful for the body aches that come with the flu, but a lot of the time when I'm sick, I don't exactly need o…

>>go to the pharmacy counter and get Pseudoephedrine

Thanks DEA, you used to just be able to get that in Nyquil and all the others, but the DEA in their moronic idea that drug dealers are going and buying precursors from the local CVS (not stealing them in bulk) has to abuse millions of law abiding sick people forcing them to sign the "papers please" log book treating them like criminals for wanting to feel better.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#184

Post by maxerickson »

tptacek wrote: post #121
maxerickson wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess some people will still (try to) make it themselves, but last time it came up here someone posted about how mass production has just moved on to some other synthesis that isn't dependent on buying a precursor in small retail quantities: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37499106

Again: the issue isn't that you can't mass-produce methamphetamine without pseudoephedrine; at scale, it's presumably far, far easier to produce it without using pseudoephedrine as a precursor. The issue is that pseudoephedrine-based meth production is a particularly damaging kind of production, in the sense of burning down buildings, causing distinctive kinds of crime, and producing an even more dangerous product.

Is there reason to believe that restriction on pseudoephedrine is having a larger effect on shake and bake production than the relative cost? I'm not really paying a lot of attention to the issue, I think I bought one small package of pseudoephedrine in the last 5 years and the biggest issue I had is that the pharmacy tech didn't assume that I meant generic when I said I wanted the cheapest one.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#185

Post by ars »

jameshart wrote: post #96
ars wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeopathic stuff is placebo, that's what it is. And placebos work very well. Who cares if they are not medicines? Sometimes all you need a placebo. You should not discount just how effective placebos actually are! Although I do recognize the potential for fraud here - they disclaimers they put on there should be more prominent.

How do you know placebos work? You can’t do a randomized placebo controlled trial to test them.

The literature on the effectiveness of placebo's is extensive and not in doubt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Effects

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#186

Post by suyula »

pyrophane wrote: post #90

My understanding is that they are only removing products that ONLY contain Phenylephrine, which means they will still sell it when it is part of multiple-ingredient formulations, which are in themselves kind of a scam. For example, many OTC "severe cold/flu" formulations contain: - Acetaminophen. Potentially helpful for the body aches that come with the flu, but a lot of the time when I'm sick, I don't exactly need o…

If the phenylephrine thing is true, that means I placebo'd my way through COVID in addition to every cold I've had in the past 15 or so years.

Going from severely congested to not at all, every four hours, makes me think that it's got to be a "this only works in some people" drug.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#187

Post by Alex3917 »

irons wrote: post #48
Alex3917 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wishful thinking, but next up should be homeopathic snake-oil. It sounds like it's serving a useful purpose. > "I know so many people… hell, I've done this myself, I've bought [a homeopathic] product by mistake," Little said. In a trip to the drug store while sick or as a weary parent of a miserably ill child, it's easy to mistakenly pick up a homeopathic product in haste or the fog of infection. If folks are going…

If you're assuming that the homeopathic stuff is incapable of harming anyone, you're mistaken. https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/08/fda-warns-amazon-to-s...

I'm definitely not assuming that homeopathic medicine is incapable of harming people, but for the sake of this specific argument I think it's reasonable to assume that we could find something that isn't especially harmful to fill the role of giving people who don't read the labels something to take.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#188

Post by quickthrowman »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #173
pdonis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are actually congested, go to the pharmacy counter and get Pseudoephedrine Yes, that's what works for me. And of course it used to be available OTC until the government decided to control access to it because of fears of meth.

I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, it was just behind the counter/required an ID to track if you're grabbing a pack from every Walgreens in a 50 mile radius in a single night

> I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect.

It’s now synthesized in industrial sized cartel owned labs in Mexico using Chinese precursors and smuggled into the US, there’s no reason to keep pseudoephedrine restricted when it’s easier and cheaper to just buy the plentiful and cheap meth on the street.

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#189

Post by cmrdporcupine »

suyula wrote: post #186
pyrophane wrote: post #90

My understanding is that they are only removing products that ONLY contain Phenylephrine, which means they will still sell it when it is part of multiple-ingredient formulations, which are in themselves kind of a scam. For example, many OTC "severe cold/flu" formulations contain: - Acetaminophen. Potentially helpful for the body aches that come with the flu, but a lot of the time when I'm sick, I don't exactly need o…

If the phenylephrine thing is true, that means I placebo'd my way through COVID in addition to every cold I've had in the past 15 or so years. Going from severely congested to not at all, every four hours, makes me think that it's got to be a "this only works in some people" drug.

Same. It has worked for me, and without the jitters and anxiety from pseudoephedrine (which is available OTC here in Canada still)

Re: CVS ditches common cold meds after FDA advisers say they're useless

#190

Post by PcChip »

Auracle wrote: post #178
pyrophane wrote: post #90

My understanding is that they are only removing products that ONLY contain Phenylephrine, which means they will still sell it when it is part of multiple-ingredient formulations, which are in themselves kind of a scam. For example, many OTC "severe cold/flu" formulations contain: - Acetaminophen. Potentially helpful for the body aches that come with the flu, but a lot of the time when I'm sick, I don't exactly need o…

For what it’s worth, Afrin and other similar nasal sprays are by far the best decongestant. The only issue is you can only take them for a few days straight, or you’ll have rebound congestion when you try to quit. There are oodles of stories online of people who didn’t heed that advice and upped their dosages again and again for months. Here’s the best method: Afrin (etc.) at night so you can sleep, and during the da…

Afrin is so incredibly addictive that I highly recommend never using it… use it once and you’ll be hooked for years, trust me!
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