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On not noticing rather too many things

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Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#31

Post by swayvil »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #12
lallysingh wrote: post #8

"The world in which a man lives shapes itself chiefly by the way in which he looks at it, and so it proves different to different men; to one it is barren, dull, and superficial; to another rich, interesting, and full of meaning." - The Wisdom of Life, Arther Shopenhauer. To enjoy life you have to pay attention to it.

Everyone, 24-7, is paying attention to something. The trick is not to regret the choice.

>Everyone, 24-7, is paying attention to something

Not to nitpick but that ain't necessarily so.

In meditation we study attention and do neat tricks with it.

One trick is a refinement of plain old concentration.

The other trick is breaking the habit of always paying attention to something.

That second one is especially neat.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#32

Post by glitchc »

This is mainly a question of attention directed inwards vs outwards. From a biological perspective, situational awareness is what has allowed our species to survive, there's evolutionary pressure. That this behaviour is so prevalent now, given the comments, suggests that our environments have become too safe and human beings are losing this awareness. It also suggests a high degree of narcissism, where my own thoughts are more important than what's happening around me.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#33

Post by mrsilencedogood »

swatcoder wrote: post #4
mrsilencedogood wrote: post #2

This resonated with me somewhat. I think what he describes is my default inclination... I focus very closely, struggle to multitask, etc. Classic ADHD symptoms, though I cope because a) I think my symptoms are relatively mild (though noticeable). I think I could get a diagnosis if I wanted one, but could also probably avoid one if I wanted to. And b) I have the great luck that I can simply "weaponize" my hyperfocus t…

FWIW -- You're not wrong that you could probably get a diagnosis if you wanted to, but everything you describe about your experience is relatable to almost everyone. That's exactly how farm workers spend 8 hours picking strawberries, how carpenters spend 8 hours hammering joists, and what everybody is doing when they miss that turn. In a lot of mental health diagnoses, its the persistent inability to "cope" that warr…

Ah just to be clear, I don't think I really detailed any of the things I experience that make me suspect I have ADHD. I do struggle a lot sometimes. For instance: The kids need socks so we can leave. I go upstairs. Hmm I want to check how that download is going that definitely doesn't matter at all right now. I check it anyway. Maybe click around a bit. Now I need to pee. What was I up here for? Go downstairs. Wife (rightfully) asks me where tf I've been and why don't I have socks. Etc.

Another example: hyperfocusing on something (again, usually programming-related... thinking about a project). Need to do a simple task. Autopilot doing a different task because I'm too busy stuck in my head thinking about the thing.

It pays off during interviews, oddly enough - the anxiety and novelty have me super sharp. Same thing during incident response when things are broken.

It's the classic executive dysfunction and novelty-seeking stuff. I don't have the hyperactivity symptoms though.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#34

Post by Jeff_Brown »

swayvil wrote: post #28

Concentrating your attention (we here are all quite familiar with it) has a flipside. A vast blindness. Because the degree to which you concentrate upon a thing (ex : a puzzle, thoughts about a puzzle, thoughts in general... to name some common ones) is the degree to which you ignore everything else. And this state can be habitual. Which is why brilliant, creative, industrious types are... well, you are familiar with…

That stereotype applies widely but is not universal. Richard Feynman, for instance, was a good example of a well-adjusted, happy, aware-of-lots-of-stuff hyperfocused creative genius. There are many others. On the order of half of the economics professors I know (at least fifty) seem to me similarly well adjusted, despite all being quite focused.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#35

Post by Jeff_Brown »

swayvil wrote: post #31
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone, 24-7, is paying attention to something. The trick is not to regret the choice.

>Everyone, 24-7, is paying attention to something Not to nitpick but that ain't necessarily so. In meditation we study attention and do neat tricks with it. One trick is a refinement of plain old concentration. The other trick is breaking the habit of always paying attention to something. That second one is especially neat.

When you meditate you are aware the whole time, right? What do you define as the difference between awareness and attention?

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#36

Post by KittenInABox »

xyzelement wrote: post #11

I think we all have different radars - and also what we perceive consciously and unconsciously differs. For example, my wife has a much keener recognition for something that's messy - a full sink or a shirt laying on the floor of my office will "scream" at her louder that it does at me. Although, I suspect the mess still "affects" me - eg I might be less focused/happy in the messy environment despite not thinking abo…

> For example, my wife has a much keener recognition for something that's messy - a full sink or a shirt laying on the floor of my office will "scream" at her louder that it does at me.

This may be because she's trained more that there are negative consequences for her, or that she's responsible for that stuff. I don't really pay attention to tickets I'm not assigned, for example, unless they're on stuff that I'd be the go-to-guy for if anything broke. I figure stuff like that works the same way: at least when I was growing up it was ok for me to be a bit lackadaisical with my living quarters whereas my sister was considered filthy for leaving a makeup brush unwashed too long.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#37

Post by Jeff_Brown »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #24
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #17

Once a friend in grad school made fun of some todo note I had written down, announcing, "Note to self: Love parents." I don't remember what the note was. I do remember laughing. Later I decided she had a point. Not that I didn't love my parents, but that if I spent more time reflecting on my history and particularly my interpersonal relationships, behaviors that came with difficulty would come more naturally.

But then did it? Or did the lack of reminders just make you revert to the original problem of needing reminders of things you'd otherwise simply never think of anymore?

I didn't respond to her advice by stopping the reminders. Indeed I didn't respond to her advice at all. But a few years later I developed a writing* habit. The deliberate practice of reviewing my experiences seemed to reduce my need for external reminders. (Causality is hard to prove, but they were contemporaneous, and theory suggests they would be related.)

* I'm saying writing, not journaling, because I wasn't always writing about my own experience. Even when I wasn't, though, the impulse for the writing probably usually came from those experiences.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#38

Post by slifin »

xyzelement wrote: post #11

I think we all have different radars - and also what we perceive consciously and unconsciously differs. For example, my wife has a much keener recognition for something that's messy - a full sink or a shirt laying on the floor of my office will "scream" at her louder that it does at me. Although, I suspect the mess still "affects" me - eg I might be less focused/happy in the messy environment despite not thinking abo…

The amount of car furniture we add to streets is insane

I look back at pictures from before cars with envy, they're so clutter free in comparison

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#39

Post by leetrout »

stavros wrote: post #22
xyzelement wrote: post #11

I think we all have different radars - and also what we perceive consciously and unconsciously differs. For example, my wife has a much keener recognition for something that's messy - a full sink or a shirt laying on the floor of my office will "scream" at her louder that it does at me. Although, I suspect the mess still "affects" me - eg I might be less focused/happy in the messy environment despite not thinking abo…

I once went on a flight in a glider. I fly RC planes, so I know how to fly (in theory), but I wasn't able to fly the glider well. The pilot, on the other hand, obviously flew with no problem. I noticed that this wasn't because I didn't know what to pay attention to, but I didn't know what to ignore . I knew very well that I needed to pay attention to my speed, attitude, etc, but there was so much sensory overload tha…

> but I didn't know what to ignore

Yep! This is key to a lot of things.

We build up tacit knowledge which influences this ignorability in multiple facets of our lives.

Re: On not noticing rather too many things

#40

Post by swayvil »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #35
swayvil wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone, 24-7, is paying attention to something Not to nitpick but that ain't necessarily so. In meditation we study attention and do neat tricks with it. One trick is a refinement of plain old concentration. The other trick is breaking the habit of always paying attention to something. That second one is especially neat.

When you meditate you are aware the whole time, right? What do you define as the difference between awareness and attention?

I guess I'm aware the whole time. I fall into distraction sometimes too tho. I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

I use the terms (awareness , attention) synonymously.

To put it another way.

It's like a flashlight. I shine the beam upon a river of experience-stuff (sights, sounds, thoughts...)

When I pay attention to a thing, I direct the beam at that thing.

When I concentrate, the beam narrows.

When I refrain from all directing and concentrating, the beam widens.

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